Opinion on my L42A1

Hello All,

Submitted my serial number to Simon for a history search (thank you, Simon), and he was unable to turn up my serial number. He suggested i post some pics here for an expert opinion. Rifle began as an M47C in 1945, converted in 1971. The "T" is faint, and the rifle use. My camera died last night, so I only got a handful of pics. There are patches to the heel and toe of the stock. It is an "N" length stock. No "S51" stamp. The small 's' is visible on the right side, below the bolthead. The forearm is a replacement (?). The old number x'ed out appears to be L32431, but it is faint and hard to read. A new serial number, V39964 has been applied below it, x'ed out as well, and the new serial number V399641 applied between that. The serial number V399641 apears on the butt socket. Seems kind of long. On the inside of the scope bracket is a small 2 inside a circle. Bracket carries serial # V399641. Scope pads are soldered in place. Any ideas? Kind of scared me when Simon was unable to locate my serial number. I had an immaculate L42A1 back in 1992. Had a bad divorce and had to sell it. Regretted it ever since. Picked this up last year for a cheap $4000. It did come with a rifle chest and scope can, which are both covered in several layers of paint. They both match the rifle and scope.

What do you all think?

One too many numbers in that S/N. Probably applied during a rebuild. My guess? Leave off the trailing "1" and see if it shows in the records.

No "coffin"? I'd be curious to see what numbers are on the transit chest and scope can. Probably all the same. which would indicate possible renumbering prior to selection for conversion. But why "x" out the one digit shorter number on the underside of the fore stock and then re-do with the extra digit? Seems the extra hard way of doing things.

I'll post some more pics later. Just charged up the camera. I was unable to get a close-up photo, but under the barrel is a small, almost illegible importer. It reads, "...co, princeton NJ". cant read the first couple of letters.

Hi smle addict. V 39964 is indeed on 'the list', but with a question mark in front of the entry. I would wager the only reason there is a question mark is because of a query over the extra digit the rifle's number has acquired during its service life. In other words I think JM is correct. Please could you get some big clear pix of the markings on the butt socket, because I think even from the photo's thus far shown, that the '1' may in fact be a vertical ding in the metalwork that has subsequently been mistaken for a digit?

By the way, it was converted & shipped as one of a batch to Donnington on 19/1/72.

ATB.

Attached are a few more pics of the buttsocket marking. It does look like as if the '1' is just a ding that was mistaken for a digit. I stared at this 'digit' for a long time, before posting here. Also posted pics of the case. Looks as if all markings were painted over. There is one property tag a the end of the box, with rifle serial number. Thanks to Simon, Jmoore, and Roger Payne for clarifying. I feel much better!

Glad to know my rifle isn't a put-together. I get stomach sinks at the mere mention of a 'fake'. I bought two fakes from the defunct Victoria Trading Company, and I felt like a fool. So now i do my research before buying.

Again, thank you all.

The label that reads Z - SID - 9/88 is a bit ominous if you ask me as it indicates Repairable (if at all.....) only at Base workshop level and has been inspected as such by the REME Stores Inspection Department in Sept 1988.

Peter, I note the front pad screws lack their paint. Would loose pad screws or similar constitute such a problem, or would a front pad issue be too trivial for Base Workshops?

Front pad screws were officially a field workshop repair as the rifle needed range and accuracy testing afterwards However, a decent unbit Armourers shop woulkd be able to re-do it and the snipoer would re-zero afterwards.

Hard extraction was a Base repair as was a loose foresight block plus the other usual Base repair jiobs - like shot out barrel. The loose foresight block was a Base repair job supposedly because of it's critical alignment and subsequent accuracy and range test. Towards the end of their life, after those fantastic L96's came on stream (You have already been advised. Get one NOW while they're cheap and plentiful.........) some of the rough L42's were simply side-lined and stripped while the others were slowly built up and put back into the War Reserve programme. That's where your initial 50+ brackets went as a matter of interest

Anyway, there's another few bits of useless Enfield related information - a bit like the telescope engraving story that will be re-told fully in the future

Peter - I thought that all of the L96's were being destroyed when pulled out of service?

Just looking at the the first pic in post 5, is that filler at the rear of the fore-end ?

.....or bedding compound maybe. Would an ill-fitting fore end necessitate a Base Workshops visit?

No, fitting a fore-end was a job for a first-class Armourer. But by the time the L42's were at the end of the line, there weren't many Armourers who could fit a file handle - let alone a fore-end

Might I ask why the Armourers would not be able to fit a forend? Is it because the new weapons had little wood so the old wood working skills were no longer taught? If so was the revised training program lacking in any way or did it just focus on skills more pertained to the modern weapons that lack wood?

I just read a very detailed description of an Ordnance overhaul facility in Egypt during October 1942~March 1943 by Roy Dunlop in his book "Ordnance Went Up Front". He includes a very detailed of the work done in the British overhaul facility. He wrote very admiringly of the British Armourer-Warrant officers and their skills, discusses the apprentice ship program and the high degree of competence of the technical staff.

They don't teach those sort of skills anymore. They will be just parts-changers (if that). Deep-level maintenance would be pushed back onto the contractor/manufacturer (though if he's gone out of business because you haven't given him any orders in a dog's age then you're donald ducked).

Its not just the army - you try and find a 'skilled' toolmaker that has been apprenticed in the last 15 years.
And I mean one that can use the bench, mill, lathe - grind turning tools from scratch - sharpen drills etc etc.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waco16

Its not just the army - you try and find a 'skilled' toolmaker that has been apprenticed in the last 15 years.
And I mean one that can use the bench, mill, lathe - grind turning tools from scratch - sharpen drills etc etc.......

---

It was the curse of the "Modern Apprenticeship" what ended what most on here would call a proper Apprenticeship, even the basics are no longer involved, when I did mine all aspects of the trade apart from welding were taught, bench fitting, lathes, millers, shapers, horizontal grinders, electrical work, sheet metal work, brazing, pneumatic and hydraulics, all that was in a training school in the first year, must admit I,m still s**t at sharpening drills though.

Whats left of what I made at 16 (all hand made to within a tolerance), only thing what we got was the screws which were produced by whoever was on the capstan, even the wing nut was hand made and the handles were square blocks to start with, even the name plate was produced with a starting hole and then cut using a abrafile,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF4262-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF4263-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF4264-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF4265-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF4266-1.jpg

MAGNIFICENT selection of apprentice made hand tools............... It just shows the versatility of the old apprentices. When I needed a new crosshead lead screw and nut for my little Myford lathe, I just got a bar of steel and length of bronze and turned a matching set! Probably cost more that a new one but................. I canm sharpen all the drill sizes and would regularly pick a few blunt ones out of the bin then sharpen for my own use

Thanks for showing us those Big Boy! We did the welding bit during my apprentceship but to be honest, I might go to college and see if I can't master a mig or tig now

Big Duke

Nice set of tools.

Better than a bought one!

The only downside with making something yourself, is that you always know the area that is not quite perfect even if no one else ever notices.

Thanks Peter, Paul, If we even touched a welding rod there would be uproar in the boiler makers union, brazing was our limits even the coppersmiths were not happy, then again they never were.

Paul, We never had much option as these were made to engineer drawings, if it wasnt up to scratch it went in the bin, all the tools above gained me 98 -100%, everything before we started had to be square and scraped flat on all sides, tolerance on this was tight and after only getting it passed, you could then begin to mark out, the one that caused most injuries was the grab (not shown) a very robust small clamp, (think of a g camp but 1" thick) to cut the centre out we had to hacksaw so many sections and then hand the hacksaw in, then it was a case of removing the metal with hammer and chisel !!, the F word was mentioned many a time.... of course all that training goes out the window once we were let loose in the shipyard, there you do it the fastest and easiest way possible,

My bench fitting apprentice master was Mr Surtees. His maxim was that '......near enough isn't good enough. But exactly right is near enough'

Nice one Geoff

I started my apprenticeship in 1981 with a local Aerospace company that took on 130 apprentices a year at the time.

We did our first year on the Apprentice section learning the basics of milling, fitting, turning and grinding producing similar items to the ones shown in your photo's.
You were given three attempts at producing the various test pieces and if you failed you were given your cards - in these politically correct times it seems a bit hard, but if you couldn't do the job you were out.

I remember one apprentice from our intake who suffered such a fate and when his bench was cleared out 8 scrapped sine bars at various stages of manufacture were found - he had obviously a 'special arrangement' with the raw materials storeman, but it did him no good in the end!

Years 2, 3 and 4 were carried out in the various sections within the group, eventually specialising in a particular trade in your final year.

I finished my time as a toolmaker on a section where you covered all aspects of the trade, not specialising in just one - it was probably one ofthe most satisfying times in my career.

Its been a long while since I've been on the tools, but have a small lathe and milling machine at home to keep my hand in (always useful when running old rifles!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waco16

Nice one Geoff

I started my apprenticeship in 1981 with a local Aerospace company that took on 130 apprentices a year at the time.

We did our first year on the Apprentice section learning the basics of milling, fitting, turning and grinding producing similar items to the ones shown in your photo's.
You were given three attempts at producing the various test pieces and if you failed you were given your cards - in these politically correct times it seems a bit hard, but if you couldn't do the job you were out.

I remember one apprentice from our intake who suffered such a fate and when his bench was cleared out 8 scrapped sine bars at various stages of manufacture were found - he had obviously a 'special arrangement' with the raw materials storeman, but it did him no good in the end!

Years 2, 3 and 4 were carried out in the various sections within the group, eventually specialising in a particular trade in your final year.

I finished my time as a toolmaker on a section where you covered all aspects of the trade, not specialising in just one - it was probably one ofthe most satisfying times in my career.

Its been a long while since I've been on the tools, but have a small lathe and milling machine at home to keep my hand in (always useful when running old rifles!)

---

Sounds similar,

I started a few years after yourself , I had just left an Apprenticeship as a 1st year Mechanic, which I had started a week after leaving school ( I left school as soon as I could) and went back for the exams,

The reason for leaving the Mechanic Apprenticeship was the garage was up for sale so decided to take the offer from VSEL, (Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering Ltd) best thing I ever did in Life, I did enjoy the training school, and was the runner up to Apprentice of the year, but the ship yard well..... at the time there were 16,000 employed in the yard, we moved about etc during you 2,3,4th year to various workshops some good some bad and some well .....just getting out of bed was hard work in my last year, but then I was looking at getting away and was applying to various companies to get away to sea (Merchant Navy).

A lot of lads I worked with had been 11 trippers one there one back, but a few had been in untill the wife had told them no more, what appealed to me was the runs a shore and cheap beer !!

After a lot of letters, I think I sent a total of 30 out, I recieved a reply from a recruiting company (agency) which got me in the door with Esso the rest is history after that, and never looked back but it was all down to serving an apprnticeship in the shipyard.

But I do have to thank one Gentleman, Colour Sergeant Carrol, he was the Recruiting Sergeant for the Regs at the time in the TA barracks in Barrow-In-Furness, I had signed up for 22 yrs, when I was 15 1/2 but he held my application back, as I never scraped up enough points for an apprenticeship in the army and was destined for the Infantry (which is all I wanted to do at the time)
He told me to wait and see if I did get an apprenticeship and if I did, go back and see him after serving my time.
Approx 14 years later I went back, but to join the TA, but thats another story.... and as it happens Have recently put another application in for the TA as the age for proffesional trades etc has been raised to 43, I,m just in with a chance as still only 42..... have got my Barb test 1st Nov.....

This threads started to go off on a bit of a tangent but it set me thinking about my Apprenticeship and some of the odd coincidences with Big Duke's career path.

I'd always had in mind the idea that I too was going to be an infantryman, ultimately joining the para's. I'd gone along to the local recruiting office, passed all the tests and only needed my Dad's signature and I was off to Catterick. My Dad however had other ideas, he'd been in the REME and I can remember as clear as day him telling me that first and foremost I should try and get myself an Apprenticeship and that if I couldn't then once I turned Eighteen I could sign myself in.

I took his advice to heart and before I knew it I was Apprenticed as an Electrician for the next five years. Funny thing is that even as an Apprentice spark I was taught and expected to pass trade tests in the use of the milling machine and lathe as well as being taught to gas braze etc. One of my abiding memories is having to make a scale model of an electricity pylon out of copper wire and solder. None of your dainty little soldering irons for this particular task though! we had to use a bloody monstrous thing with a bit the size of 3/4 Whitworth bolt that was heated over a gas burner. I lost count of the number of times I built that pylon up to 3/4 height only to have the bloody thing collapse because I'd go to much heat into it.
When I finally came out of my time the jump in money, literally overnight, was incredible and off I went travelling the country and the world chasing the almighty dollar, and nothing was further from my mind than the Army. Next thing I know I'm Married with a Daughter, and as she's getting older I started thinking about how different things might have been if I'd followed my original career path. A bit more time passes and I think to myself what about the TA? you've got a trade and all perhaps you'd be some good to the Engineers maybe. I've got to be honest with you I was more than a bit hurt to discover I was considered "over the hill" at 44 years old and by the Para's and Royal Marines reserve standard I should have been shot at 34.

Oh well, in the words of Forrest Gump I guess "Sh*t Happens".

Cheers,

Simon.