Hunting with Milsurps- 2012 Edition

Time again to creep about the woods. This year we have a new property lease, obtained fairly late, so it'll be scouting as much as hunting this season.

But today's star is the Yankee rifled musket in the Rebel forest.:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ad8dbe78-1.jpg
Which is older? The pine or the musket? That's a mighty big pine for these parts. Several of those monsters on this hillside.

The 1863 and '64 dated S.N & W.T. for Massachusetts Model 1861/"1863 Type II" .577" bored rifled musket handles surprisingly well even in dense undergrowth, provided attention is paid to where the muzzle is a'fixin to go next! Balance and weight are good. Sights are fine in good light, but not great in low light conditions early in the morning.

Haven't had much success getting standard Minie ball to shoot all that accurately, but the Hornady "Great Plains" bullets are more than adequate. Since i only shoot this thing standing, group sizes are more dependant on the shooter, but the Minie ball just don't do nearly as well- say 3 times worse! Probably won't shoot at game much past 50 yards with this rifle, regardless.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3f38bb53-1.jpg
Some of the .577"/.58 bullets tested. None as good as the Hornady bullet,(not shown).

A few more photos of today's outing:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d17d06d3-1.jpg
That's not a tiny sling (Ow ! That hurts just thinking about it...) but a "wind gage" hanging from the swivel. Note the heavy undergrowth here. Very nice, but very slow to hunt. Fun until it gets "hot" .(about 60 deg. F/ 15 C or more)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a8c8fcaa-1.jpg
BTW, this is quite similar to what the conditions were like at the battle of Chickamauga, not terribly far from here, in which rifles of the same ilk were used.

Feel free to relate your experiences with your milsurps in the field. What about the rifle's features do you like the best? What idiosyncrasies do you find less than ideal? Dead critters are entirely optional, and are actually a small part of the total hunting experience to me. Photos of your rifles are most welcome, though. See the link below for a similar discussion from a couple of years back (Can't remember if we had one last year...):

Hunting With Milsurp Weapons- 2010 Edition

Hmmm, I seem to have just the rifle to do that. But it's not a milsurp, although I got it from one our members due to it's Lee-Enfield/Mauser derivation.

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Originally Posted by noomi

Hmmm, I seem to have just the rifle to do that. But it's not a milsurp, although I got it from one our members due to it's Lee-Enfield/Mauser derivation.

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I'm curious. What is this rifle?


BTW, Deer 1, jmoore 0. Was within 30 yards or so of one yesterday with the .58 rifled musket before he snorted and took off. Never got a good look. Too much brush!

Nice. That should bring down a lot of deer. I will probably use my 91/30. I'd rather use the M44 with the same round, as it's shorter and quicker, but it has the built in bayonet that folds back and I don't think that's legal to hunt with.

Dave

One of my milsurps if going to the woods with me this season. No 5 Mk 1 perahps.

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Originally Posted by dgray64

I'd rather use the M44 with the same round, as it's shorter and quicker, but it has the built in bayonet that folds back and I don't think that's legal to hunt with.

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Could you temporarily remove the bayonet?

After having used the super-long rifled musket all week in thick cover, the long barrel just hasn't been the bother that one might think. But I hunt in "slow motion" if at all posible. In fact, frozen in place more often than not. So there's time to think about the next move.

Had to bail out today when the mist started coating the old rifle. Rusting it up wasn't in the plans. But no damage after a wipe down. EezOx is good stuff.

The 55gr .223 Sierra soft point scores again out of the old 1-12" twist M16 upper at about 08:45 this morning. Have yet to render him down to see the horror show, but that buck did not go 30 feet after a shoulder hit at about 100 yards. Much further away than Monday's multiple doe walk-by at about 40-50 feet! Same spot, making like a tree. All that practice shooting standing pays off. Pressure's off now, after no deer last year. So now the other weapons can have their turn.

Y'all have probably seen this upper before, but here's a shot from last year, just in case;

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff001-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by jmoore

The 55gr .223 Sierra soft point scores again out of the old 1-12" twist M16 upper at about 08:45 this morning.

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Meat in the freezer. Well done.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Meat in the freezer. Well done.

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Well, that's about it. No "trophy" buck, but I'm not a trophy hunter. I just like the meat. Very lean. No additives.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...383deffe-1.jpg

A buck with and AR and a 1970? Mustang. You are living the dream!

Looks like a 67 fastback.

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Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger

Looks like a 67 fastback.

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'69 Mach I. Thought it was finally gone, but after having it underfoot for six months I swapped for it back. What a moron am I. Still have the mountain of parts, except for a few goodies. All in the way.

ETA: See this thread:

Crazy Swaps: So how about...?


Back to the .223 devestation. The 20" bbl. 55gr results never fail to impress and shock. Especially those who haven't seen it before, like friend KT today. Punched through both shoulders, broke one rib, and bloodied the meat in a six inch or more radius on both sides. Only about half the lungs gone, but that's because of the forward shoulder hit, rather than the usual behind the leg bone placement. (Brush required a high and forward POA.) Thought there would be a bullet to recover, but it was a "through and through". (Weird term, no?)

PM me if you want the photographic details.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

A buck with and AR and a 1970? Mustang. You are living the dream!

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Is that what this is? First night back at work, seriously "jet lagged" after five days of hunting, only to get off work, drive 2 hours, hunt for 45 minutes, and then spend the rest of the day dragging, rendering, and generally making a bloody mess. Thank goodness they let me have another night off! Counting blessings at this point. Sure can't count on "smarts"...

My favorite car of all time. Big block?

I shot a deer with an AR once. Used was my 20" service match with 69 grain soft point from Black Hills. That deer dropped like a soggy turd from a tall horse. The shot took both lungs, liver and the heart out. There was only an entrance hole. That bullet made the entire chest cavity look like churned grape jelly. I was quite impressed. Not an ounce of meat wasted.

MeatMarket got a nice deer with a P'14 in this thread:

First Kill of the Season - Deer Hunting

(Click on the link above.)

ETA:

Deer "dough-nut" from the spike above:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22739ae5-1.jpg
Corn meal, salt, and pepper. Fried in a little olive oil. Always have cooked the heart straight away. Firm but not chewy- a very fine grained muscle.

Reposting from my original thread in the P14 forum:

I shot this buck with my Remington P14 as seen in the photo with original battle sights (on Friday, November 2). I was sitting on an enormous fallen tree which was laying atop a hill at the edge of a plateu and looking down into the wooded valley below. This area is a heavily traveled deer highway. He snuck up on my right side about 20 yards down the hill from me before I heard his footsteps. He was unaware of my presence and stopped, faced me, and lowered his head to nibble at something or sniff the ground. My movement was concealed from him by a small sappling halfway between us as I took my aim. He stumbled as I shot him in the neck through the light foliage and he darted away, stumbling several times before he finally turned in my direction and collapsed about 60 yards further. He bleed very little and weighed 135 lbs with 5 points (6 if you count the little 2 inch tine). The main tine on his right antler had been snapped off about 3/4 of the way up.

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Originally Posted by MeatMarket

I shot this buck with my Remington P14 as seen in the photo with original battle sights (on Friday, November 2).

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More inspiration for a milsurp deer hunt. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

More inspiration for a milsurp deer hunt. Thanks!

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What do you like to hunt with?

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Originally Posted by MeatMarket

What do you like to hunt with?

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I have been using a single shot 45-70 for the last few years but my renewed intrest in milsurps along with posts like this have inspired me to take an oldie to the woods.

I'm not quite ready to go down that road yet. Very close though. I still take my daughter hunting and I'm more of a meat hunter than an enjoy my time in the woods hunter. Each year I say I'm going to relax and wait for a nice one but when I see a deer I tend to turn into a machine. In the old days we had two separate seasons. The first was a 2 week buck season. The second was a three day doe season. If I managed to get a buck in buck season, I would take another rifle into the woods with me in doe season. It was in one of those years that I did score a double with a 303 mk III*. I had a scope mounted on it, the screw on type that doesn't require anything other than swapping out the ejector screw. Shot two doe one right after the other. Never hunted with a bolt action rifle before that morning.

PA does not allow semi-auto rifles for deer (or anything for that matter) which is one reason I don't have a Garand or M1 Carbine when I could have bought them cheap. On the other hand, there is no restriction about having a bayonet on your rifle. My first rifle was a 99 Savage in 300 Savage. My current rifle is a 99 Savage in 243 Winchester. I believe my 300 was made in the 1920's, the 243 in the 1980's and is one of the last 99's as they stopped production a few years later. I still have the 300 but it is in honored semi-retirement right now. I still have the 303 but removed the scope earlier this year to restore it to the way it's "supposed" to look. Lost the blasted ejector screw in the intervening years which included one move. That cost me $5.

What I would really like to take out is my re-snipered ex-sniper 91/30 but my eyesight went bad and I can't see through the scope without removing my glasses which means I can't see anything else but inside the scope. Not impossible on the range but pretty bad in the woods.

When my daughter goes off hunting on her own, I may start hunting with the milsurps or I may just get one of those scope set ups for one of my Swiss rifles. That I would really enjoy. I have to decide which one first. Not quite prepared to shell out the cash for two mounts. One would work on either my K11 or 1911 so that's probably the most likely one I will start out with. The K31 is supposed to be more accurate so I may go that way instead. Decisions, decisions.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

In the old days we had two separate seasons.

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Our season starts goes from August to New Years day with no limit for bucks, but does are limited to certain days. I guess that's why deer are so much smaller here down south. What is it like in the "new days"?

I'm in a bit of the oppesite situation. I took a very nice buck some 30 years ago in a "hunting accident" and have never had the oppertunity to take one better so I turned into a bit of a meat hunter as well. Having no kids my interest in deer hunting has diminished after my hunting partners son has grown up. The take a kid part is what kept me interested. I started taking a camera last year and that added some spark. Not being a bow hunter I think the thought of taking a deer with a milsurp may renew my intrest a bit.

The new days in Pennsylvania are a bit confusing and I admittedly don't follow anything but what I actively pursue that closely. No matter what season you hunt in however you are only allowed ONE buck (called an antlered deer as some does grow antlers). A youth hunter, between the age of 12 and 16 at the time of purchase of the license may shoot any antlered deer with at least one spike 3 inches in length or two or more points on one side. An adult hunter may only shoot a deer with 3 points on one side in most of the state although there are sections where the deer must have 4 points on one side. The buck may be killed in archery season which there are two, one in the fall and one in the dead of winter, the rifle season which is two weeks long and starts the Monday after Thanksgiving, or the winter flintlock season. Does each have their own license so you can kill as many as you can get licenses for. The licenses are regulated so getting more than two is unusual, more than three near impossible. Does may be killed in the early or late archery seasons, early muzzleloader season, and late flintlock season. They may also be killed during the two week rifle season in most of the state but some sections of the state do not allow doe hunting until the second week.

There are also special hunts for does which are available for youth and senior (65+) hunters which last a day or two in the early fall.

All these regulations are designed to maintain a healthy herd and the antler regulations are designed to create larger bucks. In the old days, anyone could shoot a 3 inch spike so bucks rarely had an opportunity to mature.

Are they working? Depends where you hunt. Public lands typically get over hunted no matter what so there are few deer. Private lands seem to be pretty healthy. I have noticed a dramatic increase in the size of antlers in the few years the regulation has been in place. I have been seeing more buck but getting fewer at the same time. Does I have not had any difficulty getting although some years are much harder than others. It is rare that I do not get a deer but it does happen. With a daughter hunting, I have no desire to get more than one doe license. Two deer are plenty for us, three is almost more than we can handle and four I would have to give the one away.

I hunt a mix of public and private land in the south central part of the state which seems to have a healthy population. The north central region is nearly all public and has been over hunted for decades and has not recovered yet. The east has a high human density, fewer forested areas, fewer areas to hunt but larger bucks on average. No experience with the western half of the state but that is also where the 4 point restrictions are so I assume there are more large buck out there.

Pennsylvania has approximately 1 million deer hunters and a quarter million deer harvested each year. Another massive amount of deer are killed on the highways each year so it is a pretty big herd to manage along with the hunting public. Numbers have been on a slow decline for some time. Some areas require shotguns with slugs or buckshot only but that is only a few counties surrounding Philadelphia. Because of the large numbers of hunters and the high power rifles used, we have flouescent orange requirements during any season which coincides with any rifle season. These include squirrel and turkey. So only the very early archery hunters may use full camo. Once squirrel season starts, they must wear it while moving and I think tie something to the tree while sitting.

I shot a 10 point buck in '93 which is the largest I've ever seen in the woods. It scored 116 Boone and Crockett so it is not a large buck by any means. My oldest daughter shot an 8 poiint buck about 7 or 8 years ago that scored 113. The large numbers of hunters and the large deer kill every year makes Pennsylvania one of the highest in deer killed but one of the poorest in Boone and Crockett bucks. The antler regulations have only been in effect for about the last 5 or 6 years.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I have been using a single shot 45-70 for the last few years but my renewed intrest in milsurps along with posts like this have inspired me to take an oldie to the woods.

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You could keep the caliber, but just use a US military trapdoor rifle or carbine. It's a milsurp caliber at any rate.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

You could keep the caliber, but just use a US military trapdoor rifle or carbine. It's a milsurp caliber at any rate.

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I believe the trapdoor qualifies for our "primitive" weapon seasons. Currently use a H&R Handirifle. Handy little gun and the 45-70 gets the job done.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I believe the trapdoor qualifies for our "primitive" weapon seasons. Currently use a H&R Handirifle. Handy little gun and the 45-70 gets the job done.

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I was under the impression that "primitive" weapons would only mean black powder muzzle loaders etc. The .45-70, no matter what weapon it's in, is a full cartridge round, therefore I wouldn't think it to could fall under that category. Then again, all states are different.

In my state the law was changed a few years ago allowing single shots in 45-70/ 35 Whelen. I think it is pre 1900 single shot. I think thnk they have even changed it where you can use a Ruger #1 and a TC Encore in an allowed caliber.

Our state has primitive meaning flintlock only. Percussion is not even allowed. They did change it in the early season that any muzzle loader could be used including in-lines. I like the option. The second season is in January, the snow is flying and guys are running around the woods in buckskins. I'm serious. I believe the flourescent orange requirement is waived but I'm not positive.

That sounds like fun,or would have been fun when I was younger. I think now I would look at like I do the Bow & Arrow crowd. I get it, but it's not for me. The new 45-70, no misfires or need for excessive cleaning. If you haven't figured it out the easier it is the more I like it these days.

If you like easy, then hunting deer seems an odd pursuit. Seems like I'm sore most of the season! Then there's the all the attention to little details. Scent control. Stealthy movements. Gaging the wind. Moon phases. Navigation. (I was sure I was going to have to form a search party for one friend one more than one occaision...) Dragging. skinning. Butchering.

But then there's the eating....

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Originally Posted by jmoore

But then there's the eating....

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Yeah that's definitely a hard part :rofl:

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Originally Posted by MeatMarket

Yeah that's definitely a hard part :rofl:

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Yah, eating- not hard at all! But cooking? The hard part is deciding the tastiest method of preparation. Slow cooked? Grilled? Gas, wood or charcoal? Roasted? Thrown on a skillet and quick fried for faster gratification?

BTW, mixed some deer and squirrel in a stew the other day. Surprising the flavor difference even after hours together in the pot. Both good!

Should get to zero the old No.4 (T) and the No.3 (T) this morning to take out into woods. Was going to do it last week, but it wasn't to be.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

But then there's the eating....

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That part influinces my decision to keep it up. I also enjoy the farming (food Plots) building stands and the spending time out doors. The work after the kill is on the other side of the ledger.
The best part is watching kids enjoy the sport.

I have made my decision on which milsurp to take to the deer woods. I tried my latest purchase this week end with some Privi soft points. Shot her at 75 yards with windy conditions.open sights and less than spectacular eyesight and grouped slightly less than 2". Very pleased and confident I can hit at the close ranges our cutover hunting spot affords.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I have made my decision on which milsurp to take to the deer woods.

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And that would be??? Gonna make us search you Post history or is it a secret?




No milsurp .22rf trainers in the woods?

Or old WWII aerial training shotguns used in the dove fields?

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Originally Posted by jmoore

And that would be??? Gonna make us search you Post history or is it a secret?

No milsurp .22rf trainers in the woods?

Or old WWII aerial training shotguns used in the dove fields?

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Sorry , I should have known you may not have seen my Yugo M48 post. It shoots far better than I expected.
I think the squirrels are in no danger from my Enfield No 2 mk IV. Eyesight to diminished.

Not really a milsurp but of the same family. This was today, 215 yards, 21 degree down hill quartering to me.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6coyote3-1.jpg

I think it's time to come out of the closet. The 20" 1-12 twist light barreled AR is my absolute favorite hunting rifle. Especially because of the adjustable length of pull stocks. That and it's been a "one shot wonder". On my way out this morning it's what was chosen after a fair amount of hand wringing. The freezer's too empty to add complications. Will try to get the Enfields out this coming week, but I need to find a fixed location from which to hunt. "Still hunting"/stalking is far easier with a lightweight rifle or (heavy) revolver.

In the woods from sun up to sun down today. Saw one deer who took an immediate left turn into the invisible zone when my hand moved down to the trigger. But was surrounded by turkeys in the morning. Roughly 40 in one flock trailed by another eleven. None got closer than 20 feet. Had one done so, it might have had an blunt force trauma "accident" :

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b84c927b-1.jpg

I was standing in the middle of the flock of these noisy critters when the photos were taken. No wonder the deer were scarce!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cd888c5f-1.jpg

I'm surprised the didn't all bust loose when the camera clicked. I used to have a lot of fun with turkeys but haven't ventured out after them in years. We don't have any near where I live at present and where I used to hunt them up home it's mostly posted now.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I'm surprised the didn't all bust loose when the camera clicked.

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I started taking my camera to the woods last year and wondered how folks got the close up pictures without the game spooking when the camera clicked. Then I discovered digital cameras "click" is a menu selectable sound that can be turned off. No shutter on a digital camera,no noise.

yea i walk thru the woods with the best battle implement ever devised because if it could do the job to take out people than i'm sure it will do good with deer:thup:

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Originally Posted by lude92

yea i walk thru the woods with the best battle implement ever devised because if it could do the job to take out people than i'm sure it will do good with deer:thup:

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Not exactly. A modern battle rifle is designed to wound, not kill believe it or not. You kill an enemy, you take out one man, you wound an enemy, you take out two or three. The one you wound and those that have to take him to the rear. Then there are the men who must care for him, the resources needed to heal him. Now obviously that tactic only works when the enemy you are fighting cares about the soldiers in its army. If the idea was specifically to kill, the Geneva Conventions wouldn't prohibit expanding bullets.

I personally would not recommend a 223/5.56 as a deer rifle. I know a lot of guys swear by them but I consider it to be too light a caliber for anyone but a very good shot. From personal experience, I know a LOT of guys going into the deer woods are not very good shots. If you are a good shot, can make sound decisions on shot placement, quite possibly the perfect rifle for deer. It's not going to tear up a lot of meat and obviously has the power to take down a deer sized animal. If I could legally hunt deer with mine, I probably would, it is a very handy, nice little rifle and very accurate. We may not use semi-automatic rifles in my state.

The biggest pet peeve I have is these guys that take Model 94 Winchesters in 357 magnum out hunting thinking its a super long range deer rifle. I ended up tracking a wounded deer three years in a row that was shot by one of these knuckleheads. He didn't understand the capabilities and limitations of the rifle and he was probably a very lousy shot. A guy hunting with a 357 handgun knows the limitations and hunts accordingly. Just because it's in a rifle, doesn't extend it's range all that much. The whole time I was tracking these deer the guy was blabbering on about what a great rifle it was and the great stopping power it had. If it had great stopping power, I think we actually would have found the deer lying dead a short distance from where he shot it. As it was, never found any of them after tracking each for about an hour and a half.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I started taking my camera to the woods last year and wondered how folks got the close up pictures without the game spooking when the camera clicked. Then I discovered digital cameras "click" is a menu selectable sound that can be turned off. No shutter on a digital camera,no noise.

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Unfortunately, mine clicks. It has shutters, apertures, a mirror that flips and probably a few other things that make noise including the autofocus. I have a Nikon D40. I probably should try and get a small one that doesn't make noise. It's quiet enough that I could probably get two photos, the first one as the animal approaches and the second one a very nice photo of the animal staring directly at me trying to figure out what just made the noise.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Unfortunately, mine clicks. It has shutters, apertures, a mirror that flips and probably a few other things that make noise including the autofocus. I have a Nikon D40. I probably should try and get a small one that doesn't make noise. It's quiet enough that I could probably get two photos, the first one as the animal approaches and the second one a very nice photo of the animal staring directly at me trying to figure out what just made the noise.

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Mine is a lower end Nikon Cool Pix 15x zoom 10mp. Has a nice large screen that I discovered is a pretty good nite vision devise.

My kids all have Nikon Cool Pix. Maybe I'll swipe one of theirs.

i agree a .223/5.56 is a small round for hunting deer but it can still do the job just not as good as a larger round in my opinion i know about the design to wound than not to kill but a 30-06 oouch.

Attachment 38365

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

My kids all have Nikon Cool Pix. Maybe I'll swipe one of theirs.

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Not pro grade but a lot of fun to call them in for a photo op. Too small to shoot with a milsurp means torment them with a grunt call and shoot away with the camera. Lots of fun with none of the work.

That's a pretty nice too small to shoot there.

For the deer I've gotten to see lately, an M79 "thumper" would probably be the best tool. But even those rounds might not get through all the brush! Probably 10 deer seen in the last week and not one clear shot. That's another good thing about .223. No temptation to try to punch through the twigs and all. Won't work well except with a .50 BMG round, and that's too heavy to tote...

Today's deer were so well hidden they could only be seen whilst actually moving. No agricultural land on our property at all. It's got my Ohio friend all discombobulated. He never knew the challenges of hunting our undergrowth choked forest lands! To me, open areas in the woods are unnerving and best avoided. The deer live in the nasty bits.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Attachment 38365
Not pro grade but a lot of fun to call them in for a photo op. Too small to shoot with a milsurp means torment them with a grunt call and shoot away with the camera. Lots of fun with none of the work.

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Good grief! Out in the open in broad daylight! How I wish that our hunting was like that. Actually, not really. I like that challenge of getting in close in the scrub. Long range executions would ruin the feeling of having done a tough job well. Same goes for tree stands. Tried it, got a deer or two, and quit.

Attachment 38366

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

That's a pretty nice too small to shoot there

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Not around here we are pretty fortunate to have some very nice bucks in our area. Minimum
14" inside spread is legal. The picture above was taken in my sisters front yard earlier this year.

And just how do you accurately gage a "14" inside spread"? Before you pull the trigger, that is?

Rule of thumb is a bucks ears when alert and looking right at you are 16 inches apart. Not sure exactly how accurate that is. I never heard of spread being a "legal" definition although I've heard of it being a requirement on many private properties where you have to be a member to hunt.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

And just how do you accurately gage a "14" inside spread"? Before you pull the trigger, that is?

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I confused the beam legnth and spread it is actually 10" spread and 13" main beam.
http://www.mdwfp.com/media/7311/hunting_seasons.pdf
I have a 19" eight point killed in a "hunting accident" some 30 years ago so until I see somthing bigger ,does beware.

Would you believe i missed an easy 60 yard shot yesterday at a good sized buck? Possibly because the excitement of being nearly run over by the doe he was probably pursuing. And the fact that the tremors form holding the scoped revolver were pretty severe by the time he moved into the clear zone. Dadgummed thing gets hard to hold standing there for many looong minutes frozen in place. Oh, well- it was all amusing after an exhaustive search of over an hour to ensure there was no impact. He wasn't even excited. Just slowly moved off. Watched him in the brush for 10 minutes or so- finally dissappeared about 200 yards out going up a small valley. Now I feel like Elmer Fudd in a Pepe LePew cartoon. Or something like that. At any rate, I'm now well convinced that magnified optics on a big game hunting handgun are about the worst possible combination possible for stalking. Might be OK from a fixed location. First miss in a long time, though!

Went back to an old reliable today, but quite windy and the moon is getting very full. Bailed out early to sight in another AR. Still looking for a location on the property where a heavier rifle can be used effectively (I.e., the direction in which the deer are apt to appear can be guessed beforehand...and at more than 30 yards.) Would surely like to get the No.4 (T) back in the woods- it's been a long time! And was not too bad on the old property-but all it got to do was ID deer that were too small to shoot. That old Mk.I scope is clearer than many modern units!

Thinking back on past hunts, the subject of "see-through scope mounts" came to mind. As wretchedly "non-zero holding" as the bulk of the commercial units have been and continue to be, they certainly can be practical. Both the scoped P'14 and the Simpson rework long side rail Mauser 98 have taken deer using the iron sights under the scope because the animals were so close. Not something that can be done with the No.4 (T).

I remember the scope on the P'14 being completely filled with featureless deerhide. The "high powered" (6x, I think) scope on the Mauser was useless for picking out a good shot through thin brush. But the irons worked superbly on both rifles!

Probably why the hunting ARs have scopes mounted on the carry handle, rather than the current fad of having flattop receivers and BUIS. Not useful when time and allowable movements both can be minimal.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Rule of thumb is a bucks ears when alert and looking right at you are 16 inches apart. Not sure exactly how accurate that is. I never heard of spread being a "legal" definition although I've heard of it being a requirement on many private properties where you have to be a member to hunt.

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I'd guess not very! Biggest buck I ever took was actually way too far off, but his size made him appear much closer. Plus, he was "side view only" so it would have been impossible to judge regardless.

Not so much milsurp as "milcurrent": Loaned out the FN 17s (no select fire) and my friend had this seven pointer after only 45 minutes of stumbling about the woods. The other two of us on the property have been over a month since the last deer...(BTW, I'm almost certain this is the deer I missed last week with the revolver- same skinny lopsided rack.)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ec3c757f-1.jpg

I think that deer was scared to death after seeing that rifle!

Neck shot? Sweet! Mule deer have as much a 18" ear tip to ear tip.

But perhaps not the sort of game that you would expect. :rolleyes:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...25513173-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d29d50fb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...68b3cb78-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2b190024-1.jpg

Might have had more than two squirrels, had I not moved the sight just before entering the woods. Missed two and then did a bit of impromptu zeroing. Still, hitting tiny moving targets with iron sights isn't getting any easier...Had to swap glasses and go with the "range" pair so that the front sight would stand out. Apparently, targets ARE illusions, as the squirrels are barely distingushable with those lenses. No matter, sight alignment is the far more important factor in the equation.

What continues to amaze is that this "old fashioned" stock ends up being less fatiguing to carry at the ready than a three pound lighter AR. Wrist stain is less, mostly. Maybe pistol gripped rifles are a fad!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Finally! Some Lee Enfield action

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Outstanding! I may have to streach the old MK IV's legs. I will have to say with my old eyes it will surley give the squirrels a sporting chance. The photos are terrific!

I use an AJ Parker No.9 on my .22 Pattern '14. It's easier on the eye.
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Outstanding! I may have to streach the old MK IV's legs. I will have to say with my old eyes it will surley give the squirrels a sporting chance. The photos are terrific!

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...90023322-1.jpg

Nice cloudy morning today. Good for photos from what little I understand.

The major drama this hunt was doing reloads. Gloves and .22s don't mix so well! The "Bandolier" was easily depleted as well:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c10e8cea-1.jpg

Quite resorceful as well, for rapid reloads.

"Deer doughnuts":

Heart breaded with a little cornmeal, pepper, salt and fried in olive oil:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...996cf9ae-1.jpg

Did a squirrel heart, too, but it's 163 times smaller! Kinda easy to lose.

A late entry, but it surely counts!:

Hunting with my garand in TN