first enfield!! but now think i have a bitzer...help

as the topic says... i went to a gun show and bought my first enfield... i am trying to collect ww2 type rifles for a functioning collection (i cant afford to collect wall hangers only, tho it would be nice lol) so there i was at the gun show walking around not looking for anything in particular and this beautiful enfield pops up and has me mesmerized... i didnt have one yet so i look it over and am impressed...it has beautiful wood...metal condition is unreal....ALL MATCHING SERIAL NUMBERS... i was ecstatic... so with my best poker face chewed the guy down to 375 out the door...a bit high for most enfields BUT ive never seen one this nice....took my prize home and cleaned the light coat of cosmoline off made note of diff markings and started doing my home work....and now i have lost almost all of the enthusiasim that i once had.... it appears that i have purchased a john jovino lithgow... but let me give a few more details... it is marked MA lithgow SMLE III* 1945 on the band buy the trigger... has a serial number like 1234 A ....on the barrel, receiver, and bolt handle, end cap.... (from what im seeing the serial with the alpha suffix is the kiss of death) has lettering Ba also on all pieces...no serial or any marking anywhere has been scrubbed or lined through... has brass pins in stock along with brass butt plate...SOOOOO my questions...did i just buy an over priced bitzer enfield? is it still considered a real enfield because it was still manufactured in assie but assembled elsewhere? does anyone know the real run down on the john jovino story and serial number correlations? and.... recoil pads...imma about to look but i dont think i have those either... so let me have the bad, worse and ugly

No bad news there, my first and one of the best and still own is a beauty, so long as you do check the pads etc you'll have a good shooter that holds it value, mine bought for 150 valued now at a realistic 750.( I just sold it) There are so many ways and degrees of collectibility regarding enfields, my suggestion is be safe and enjoy the heck out of it.

it is marked MA lithgow SMLE III* 1945 on the band buy the trigger... has a serial number like 1234 A ....on the barrel, receiver, and bolt handle, end cap.... (from what im seeing the serial with the alpha suffix is the kiss of death) has lettering Ba also on all pieces...no serial or any marking anywhere has been scrubbed or lined through... has brass pins in stock along with brass butt plate...SOOOOO my questions...

Matching serials is a good thing.
A is not a bad thing, it depends on variations, a 1918 here from jjvcoco was 8888A and was original.
brass pins are normal for all enfield wood from new, depending where, ie handguards.
BA is a makers mark of the parts, not anything odd at all.

Yes meatball its bad news if you thought you had a minty and matching from the factory lithgow. Your research is all correct in that you have a fully matching JJco lithgow numbered by JJco. They are not my thing but many seem to have and enjoy them so perhaps you can learn to love it.

RJ the 1918 lithgow would not be correct with the A suffix in the serial number. I'm sure you probably meant A8888

Exactly where is the A? if it is above the serial number, then it becomes the prefix, if at the end of the number it means no interchangeable parts.
Is the rifle stamped with the jovino stamp?
BA means the parts were made in Bathurst, a Lithgow feeder factory, if it was a Jovino bitser it is unlikely to have matching parts, come to think of it, with several feeders it would be a rare rifle anyway to have all matching parts unless pre 1942 production.
The JJCO stamp should be located on the right side just under the charger bridge, if not found you are good to go.

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if at the end of the number it means no interchangeable parts.

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That's strictly a No.4 thing, isn't it? (I've got to quit missing meetings! :D)

My bad, bit disneylandish this a.m.
If it's a 1945 build the prefix should be F, you are correct JH, you won't have to play catchup on those meetings after all.
Boy this is beginning to shape up to be a bad hair day.

Yes muffer i was wondering what you may have had in your coffee this morning..

Its not a bitser in that all parts are matching but it was assembled by jovino from surplus parts and numbered by him.

thanx for the replies... K this is what confusing me... the serial is like i said...1234A...in that exact form...the alpha is not on top or in front...right in line with the end of the numbers... in my short research this seems to make it for sure a bitzer because (from what i understand) is totally wrong as any complete rifle that left the lithgow factory in 1945 to have a prefix E or F if i remember correctly.... BUT whatsthrowing me for a loop is the BA markings on almost every part... again as i have read BA stands for one of the lithgow "sub" manufactures that started producing the enfield when lithgow got in full production of MGs... so if its a 100% parts gun did jovino take the time to assemble a gun using all the parts made from the same sub company? it would seem unlikely to me BUT again the serial isnt correlating with authentic weapons in 1945... (and yes it most def has jjny stamped on it...found it after removing the forearm)....

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so the consensus seems to be that javino took UNSTAMPED new parts, put the rifle together and then stamped everything? to explain the matching non time correct numbers? and tokok the time to get all BA parts?

He was assembling rifles from new and used surplus parts and serial numbering the gun to match. The fact that all parts are stamped BA is a coincidence I would think and never in any time of lithgow production after the feeder factories came on line was there a concern for matching supplier codes. Is the underside of the rear sight and the sight protector stamped BA? Just curious.

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Also look at the butt plate and magazine for a different code.

darn...they are not marked BA... the underside of the sight is marked WA 43..base is marked OA...rear sight protecter is marked MA 41 (look like there COULD be something before the 4 but its just a mark thats a 1-16 on an inch long so impossible to tell) but plate OA... well one more question i guess...how bad did i overpay? or did i at all? i gave 375..

So yourI rifle is not stamped BA all over after all. I wouldn't have the faintest idea about price but you seem concerned about the mix of factory codes. Why? Its perfectly normal for lithgows made after 1942 to have a mix of codes and your rifle was assembled by a commercial gunsmith so it wouldn't matter what they are stamped.

i was mainly concerned after i found out it was a jovino....im less worried about it know but when i first googled him seems most comments where like...fake enfield... so i was trying to find out more

Having an assortment of factory codes is not necessarily a bad thing in itself.

The whole idea was that the parts be to spec., regardless of the source. This is analogous the pool system used for M1 rifles and carbines in the US. The Lithgow site was primarily making machine guns in WW2. They converted the old, long brick buildings to make Vickers guns and built an entire new building near the front gate to make Brens. It was known as the "Bren Building" thereafter, long after Bren manufacture had ceased.

The plant from the original buildings was dispersed to the "Annexes", as they were known. Thus, BA (Bathurst), OA (Orange), etc. Other "annexes" were at Cowra, Dubbo, Forbes, Parkes, Portland, Mudgee, Wellington and Young, all of which were in a 150 mile radius of Lithgow. A Plant at Katoomba was planned but the war ended before it got up and running.The woodwork plant went to Slazengers (of tennis racquet fame), in Sydney.

As the war wound down, these annexes were closed. By 1946, only Lithgow remained in production. At the height of wartime production, the system was turning out four thousand rifles, 150 Bren guns and 70 Vickers guns each week.

By the time SMLE production stopped at Lithgow in 1956, output amounted to 640,000 rifles, 17,500 Brens, 12,300 Vickers. Lysaghts had produced 50,000 Owen guns and Diecasters etc., about 20,000 Austens.

For a useful roundup of .303 ammo manufacturing, see: http://enfieldking.tripod.com/enfieldking/id13.html

thanx for all the info...but since you mentioned ammo...theres no ammo related issues with the enfield receivers is there? safe to fire standard pressure new manufactured ammo?

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Originally Posted by Homer

Yes meatball its bad news if you thought you had a minty and matching from the factory lithgow. Your research is all correct in that you have a fully matching JJco lithgow numbered by JJco. They are not my thing but many seem to have and enjoy them so perhaps you can learn to love it.

RJ the 1918 lithgow would not be correct with the A suffix in the serial number. I'm sure you probably meant A8888

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yes, correct, thanks