very nice Inland M1A1

I've purchased yesterday this Inland Div. M1A1 Carbine. Taking a closer look it appeared to be the best looking M1A1 I've ever came across.

Now comes the bad part. Since it was sold off from the Austrian Army, it had been demilled (both the bolt and barrel). They received several thousand M1A1s as military aid after WWII and they were used along the Austrian Army special forces called "Jagdkommando".

Since the shown rifle appears to come freshly from the arsenal, I believe it had been never used. I've also taken it apart, all parts are correctly Inland marked (including the trigger system) and of original finish.

Hi, As you say, the amount of wear seems minimal. The strange thing to me is the RA-P marking which is the Raritan Arsenal rebuild mark. So why a rebuild? Good luck with it. John

It was rebuilt in the US during the 1950's. It was later sent as aid to Austria. It is a late one almost at the very end of M1A1 production. Late carbines when they went in for a rebuild were just checked out,proof fired and sent on their way with the stamp of the rebuilding armory on them with nothing done to them as they already has the latest updates on them. That is what this one appears to have been through. What was done to the barrel and the bolt to demil them?

Am I seeing 6,4 mil?
Would this have been issued with the lube / drain hole?
And possible a Handstamped 1?

CH-P777

Bolt has been milled 45° off, chamber has been welded, barrel has several holes drilled plus welded in steel parts.

Would need to look up whether it's hand stamped, or not. I am not that familiar with M1 Carbines yet, therefore I didn't think of that :)

A picture of the front receiver markings may tell us.
I'm no expert on the folders, but it sure looks nice.
Those stocks are so highly sought after.

Thx,
CH-P777

My all original M1A1 ser.# 6.4222xx with a 12-44 Inland barrel does have the lube hole and is hand stamped. John

What is the lube hole and where should it be?

Promo,

In the second picture, behind the mag catch you can see a hole. It was added to lube the mag catch spring and plunger.

It should not be a hand stamped M1 as it was made before Inland started making M2 marked carbines.

It's nice. I have one that's almost as nice which was re-arsenaled from high to low wood. It looks like it was never used. That's a nicely marked position 8. Were there 12 positions? I'd like to have all 12 eventually.

Twelve M1A1's, all different buttplates? That is very ambitious.

Thanks, great pics ! Can you please tell us how you know it is ex Austrian ? There is some speculation on that subject ! A story yet to unfold. Mike.

First of all: CONGRATS Promo!!! What a beautiful M1A1, you were right not to pass on the opportunity even if the carbine has been demilled!!!!

Has anybody ever established if there were any M1A1 from the second production run that were delivered with a type 3 barrel band or were they all added during arsenal rebuilts?

Hole in donut, If you have Carbine Club newsletters refer to #348 p.4. Type 3 bands were used on M1A1's by inland 6.2,6.3 & 6.4 with Inland barrels from 9-44 thru 12-44. So the answer is yes. I have one as posted above. John

Thanks a lot John. Were there also M1A1 carbines in these serial ranges with type 2 bands or were they exclusively type 3?

When the type 3 band first came out it was used only on the M1A1 and as production of them increased it was then used on all carbines. But the the type 3 band was in use in November 1944 for sure and may have started in October 1944.

I've checked the rifle, it's indeed a hand stamped M1 :)

How I know it came from the Austrian Army? Well, for several reasons. One the one hand getting a demilled rifle in Austria it's almost pretty sure it came from the Austrian Army. On the other hand, it would be unlikely to get such a rifle which would have been civilean demilled. But what makes me sure about it is that one the one hand the guy I bought it from purchased it himself from the Austrian Army, and is also a "member" of the Austrian Army ;) . And in case this was the question: no, it does not have any markings which would identify it as Austrian possession.

Hole in donut, I did a quick search on the type 2 question. Type 2's were used in the second run of M1A1's, but only serial mentioned was 5.45xx. Promo, You may want to contact Jim Moak on Bavarian Carbines to see if he is aware of any that were unmarked in Austrian Usage. I believe he would be interested. Goggle Bavarian Carbines and you can find his email. John

Jim Mock

Like many here often, I collapsed the 'Sticky Threads' posted on the top of the page on the M1 M2 Forum.
There you can find this and many other great links.

HTH,
CH-P777

Bavarian M1 Carbines (Post WWII M1 Carbines in Germany Austria)

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Originally Posted by Promo

I've checked the rifle, it's indeed a hand stamped M1 :)

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I remember a discussion on the CMP carbine site earlier this year about the first reported hand stamped 1's. The earliest reports were in the early 6.6 mill serial number range if memory serves. There was one contributer to the thread, however, who claimed to have a 6.2 handstamped. He was overseas at the time so couldn't share a photo. Said he would post a photo when he got back to the States last spring/summer. Still haven't heard back.......

---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

This was interesting; Inland Handstamp in 1944? - CMP Forums

None of the Austrian Army M1s were marked. Only the Austrian customs marked the M1s with ZW ("ZollWache"), but not the Army. Any marking would easily identify a rifle as a fake.

Only had the mobile at hand, therefore not the best quality. However, this is the hand marked 1 on the shown rifle:

Promo, I wouldn't consider the carbine in the picture as havng a hand stamped one. The hand stamped ones typically do not line up with the M and they often times appear slightly shorter than the M. See photo.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_9847-1.jpg

Chris,

July has passed, did Phrogpilot ever send you any pictures when he got back?

Sorry it was a bad picture I've taken. However, when examining it once again today it definately appears to be VERY different from the rest of the markings. Deeper and being more or less a straight line and not a "1".

I am not sure what the first handstamped one's should look like, but if it was me who's job was it to hand-mark the rifles would have started to get them in line with the other markings since I guess they were already awaiting to mark them "2". When they would get more and more, you wouldn't spend too much time upon placing it correctly in line.

Well, I made another picture. Once again only from my mobile, but still a bit better. Would be interested what your opinions about it would be, handstamped or not?

Great seeing you back around Newscotlander :bow:
Your input is always greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777

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July has passed, did Phrogpilot ever send you any pictures when he got back?

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No.

Regarding Promo's latest picture. Notice how the "E" in "CARBINE" above it is deeper in the same way as the number 1 is. That appears to have been applied with one stamp from the roll marking machine. I would have to see more evidence of hand stamping in this serial number block to believe it was done.

Painter777, Actually, I hadn't had my second cup of coffee when I posted on here earlier today and didn't realize it was this forum.

I own two Inland M1's - a 476K and a 5.4M. The 5.4M is stamped deeper, but both appear to be stamped "Ml" and not "M1" - Bob

It's a 1 (one). It just dosn't have serifs. Some other manufacturers used serifs on the 1.

Newscotlander,
It seems your statement,

"Apparently, no one ever found a hand stamped Inland in the serial number range 6219689-6449868. I have yet to see a photo. "

...still rings true. I was hoping that you or phrogpilot would have posted a photo of his carbine on that CMP thread when he returned. I see now that he never got back to you. Anyways,...it's always fun learning more about these carbines.

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Originally Posted by Bufordm1

Newscotlander,
It seems your statement,

"Apparently, no one ever found a hand stamped Inland in the serial number range 6219689-6449868. I have yet to see a photo. "

...still rings true. I was hoping that you or phrogpilot would have posted a photo of his carbine on that CMP thread when he returned. I see now that he never got back to you. Anyways,...it's always fun learning more about these carbines.

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Not sure if y'all are only referencing to M1A1's, but my inland is hand stamped and is serial number 6, 341, xxx
Attachment 38993


M1/M3 Carbine: late '44 Inland
M1 Garand: late '44 Springfield

It's beautiful. Too bad it's demilled. But still a nice thing to have in your possession. Would make a perfect wall hangar. Or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garrettbragg12

Not sure if y'all are only referencing to M1A1's, but my inland is hand stamped and is serial number 6, 341, xxx

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That is not considered a hand stamped 1 on your carbine. It is machine stamped.

This thread should be seperated in some way ? Handstamping and Austrian ? Two very, very different subjects ! Great to see Bruce and Newscots comments. What I am trying to find out about is what the M1A1s were like that the CIA did indeed hide in secret places in and around Austria during the " Cold War ". Plenty to be learnt there ! I hear Jim Mock is busy at the moment, proof reading something ! Happy New year guys. Jim F4, Thanks for keeping everything under control ! Mike.

I have several Books about this buried treasures. However, there was mainly C4 hidden. Would need to look that up for a precise answer.