reloads for the bren

I have been having trouble to get my bren to run on reloads and some factory ammo
It will run fine on old cordite ammo as long as it goes bang. I used HXP and had to set the gas at 4 and highland (ppu) and also R1M3Z will run ok at 4 but when I reload the cases I am using 150 grain projectiles from the russian 7.62x54r and AR2209 but it seems to short stroke about 1 in 9 either not coming back far enough to eject and get another round from the mag or managing to eject but not getting another round from the mag.
if I load it with RG1944 and set the gas on 2 it runs like a top.
I have tried different commercial hunting ammo from remington and winchester with the gas on 4 and they were weaker than my handloads. I have also tried W760 and W748 powder. I had alot of trouble with fouling with the 760 and the 748 starts to blow primers before it makes it cycle properly.
I dont know if my problem is the projectile weight or the powder choice. The AR2209 shoots fine in my bolt guns and shoots fantastic groups from my No4 with the russian projies and 2209.
any suggestions?

on thursday I blew out 600 rounds of HXP70 with out 1 stoppage but as soon as I try my hand loads it coughs and splutters

You need to up your bullet weight to 174 - 180 grains. Nitro-cellulose pwders have a different pressure curve than cordite and you will need to experiment a bit to get the desired result. I would suggest about 40 grains of AR2208 would be the closest duplicate of the standard Mk VII cordite load. This load should also give some adjustment with the gas regulator.

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

You need to up your bullet weight to 174 - 180 grains. .

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I was hoping I did not have to do that as the 174's are a tad expensive. I got 5K of the 150's that were all pulled from some water damaged (rust) 7.62x54 they seem to be consistant at .3105 to .311
I dont have any 2208 and that stuff is getting expensive too.
next time I get into town I might get some 2208 and a box of 174rn

Sounds like the gas cylinder and/or piston or both are worn. It should cycle fine with the Mk.7 and Mk.8 ball on #2.

46gn of 2209 behind a 174gn projectile seems to match up pretty well to the service load too.

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Originally Posted by Angrypirate

46gn of 2209 behind a 174gn projectile seems to match up pretty well to the service load too.

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what cases are you loading
I only get 42 grains as a safe load in the No4. Thats the same load I am using in the bren. I have tried up to 44 but was having blown primers at the firing pin

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Sounds like the gas cylinder and/or piston or both are worn. It should cycle fine with the Mk.7 and Mk.8 ball on #2.

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It works really well with any cordite Mk7 its flawless with the gas set at 2. Its when I try modern ammo like PPU or HXP I can only get it to run on 4.
the A80 stuff from SA did not have enough power to run it properly on 4. I am thinking the problem is the volume of gas produced by the powder, or lack of gas. On another board a guy suggested I use a 3031 powder because that was made for the 303 to mimic cordite. Now BM2 is the equivelent of that and I have BM2 for the 223 so I will try that and see how it runs

My Inglis Mk.2 runs beautifully with Greek HXP, South African A80 and Portuguese FNM Mk.7z on #2. I've never fired cordite Mk.7 through it. As Peter Laidler has told us; there's really only two things that can cause problems with a Bren, not enough gas or too much friction. My money's on a worn gas cylinder.

I use both Prvi Partisan and Winchester cases. It seems dodgy that you'd be having blown primers with just 43gn of 2209 behind a 174gn proj, since ADI lists the minimum as 43gn and the maximum as 48gn. 2208 is a completely different story - the load range is 38gn-42gn behind a 174gn projectile.

I've never used 2209 with a 150gn bullet though. Like you, I found around 42gn of 2208 behind a 150 to be pretty accurate.

Got it sorted
Changed powder to BM2
Used a different sizing die. I was using a lee die but it was not sizing the bases enough so I now using an old wells die
I was using vaseline as lube but I cleaned all the parts and just applied some light oil
now it runs fine with my reloads
I think it was a combination on an inefficient powder and improperly sized cases

This was an interesting thread that taught us all one thing. That is if it works perfectly with bog standard Mk7 NATO ball, then any subsequent problem MUST be with the ammo. Not bewing a reloader, I've never come across reloaders problems. If the Queen don't supply it, then I don't shoot it has always been my motto!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

This was an interesting thread that taught us all one thing. That is if it works perfectly with bog standard Mk7 NATO ball, then any subsequent problem MUST be with the ammo. Not bewing a reloader, I've never come across reloaders problems. If the Queen don't supply it, then I don't shoot it has always been my motto!

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What's "Mk7 NATO ball" again?? :madsmile:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

This was an interesting thread that taught us all one thing. That is if it works perfectly with bog standard Mk7 NATO ball, then any subsequent problem MUST be with the ammo. Not bewing a reloader, I've never come across reloaders problems. If the Queen don't supply it, then I don't shoot it has always been my motto!

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reloading has its pitfalls and this was one of them
I had been using a No4 for doing the load testing and got the load and velocities on the mark then assumed that they would work in the BREN.
It turns out the chamber difference between the No4 and the bren were enough to cause the cases to stick in the chamber and cause them to be hard to extract. I was using lee dies which are oversize like the late war/American chambers so they were not sizing the base back to the size it should be on new brass. Once I sized all the brass on a tight die the problem went away.
I got in a bit more range time with a bucket of reloads and had 1 stoppage that was a mag/feeding problem. With only that 1 stoppage it was a fantastic day.

So was the problem that the cases were being rammed home or forced into the Bren chamber and therefore very tight to extract?

Hard extraction shouldn't actually be a problem on a Bren because there is a VERY effective primary extraction process during the unlocking phase of the Bren Gun action. It is sooooo slick that it should unhook anything. Won't explain it here as it is quite complex - unless anyone really wants/needs me to

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Originally Posted by Mr E

and had 1 stoppage that was a mag/feeding problem. With only that 1 stoppage it was a fantastic day.

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Was it a rim behind rim by any chance? ;-)

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

So was the problem that the cases were being rammed home or forced into the Bren chamber and therefore very tight to extract?

Hard extraction shouldn't actually be a problem on a Bren because there is a VERY effective primary extraction process during the unlocking phase of the Bren Gun action. It is sooooo slick that it should unhook anything. Won't explain it here as it is quite complex - unless anyone really wants/needs me to

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I think it was the cases and possibly to some extent the powder
I made some dummy rounds and was in the process of testing function and trying to work out the problems. I let the working parts fly forward stripping a dummy round from the mag and when I tried to pull the charging handle back to eject the round it would not move. I tried unlocking the barrel to release the pressure on the locking shoulder so the bolt would move but it still stayed locked in place. I could not pull the barrel off either.
I ended up with the gun on its butt with my foot on the charging handle applying pressure while hammering on the end of a rod inserted into the barrel so it was pushing the round out. Now If only I had relocked the barrel. When the case came free the I was left holding the barrel and the gun fell over putting a nice mark in the wall.

I think this discovery also explains why the cases were coming out so damaged. I was getting bent rims on some and a very deep ejector mark on others. now looking back I can assume the bent rims were the fatter cases and the deep ejector mark were the standard size cases.

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

Was it a rim behind rim by any chance? ;-)

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yes