Reproduction 1861 Eli Whitney Revolver, Navy in 36 caliber

Folks,
Greetings from Michigan!:D

I stopped at a gunshow this weekend, and parked by a table full of stuff. In a plastic bag, were some parts. The fella accepted my $$ and I ran off with this:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4333-1.jpg
The label id's it as a Reproduction 1861 Eli Whitney Navy in 36 caliber, "in firing condition needs final timing".
Well, the seller said that he found it in a box at an estate sale. He included an "extra cylinder"... but that is for an 1851 Navy in 36cal (I have a virtual duplicate on a working revolver). He also included a hammer, but I am not sure if the hammer is correct.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4338-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4337-1.jpg
The cylinder has a number on it. Not sure what it means:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4336-1.jpg
The top strap has some machining done on it, but I don't know if anything is "missing".... or if this was a clean up operation.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4335-1.jpg
The trigger guard hasn't been polished or cleaned up:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4334-1.jpg
What I need help with, are the individual parts that are missing. Basically EVERY screw and pin is GONE.:eek: Along with the trigger and revolver actuation parts.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02_43511-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...102_4342-1.jpg
I went to Numrich and also Dixie Gunworks (the name on the barrel).... what parts will cross reference? They only list two parts as for the Eli Whitney. But numereous parts are listed for other revolvers. I suspect many will crossreference.
I have a mill and lathe and welder, so modification isn't a problem. But I think I really need a parts breakdown. :cheers:

Well folks, I stopped off at Dixie Gunworks. I did a check, and it appears that the Spiller and Burr revolver was a close match. Here are the part number via Dixie, and the price. This should get me real close to a firing revolver!

MP1545 Cylinder Stop for Repro Colt 1851 Navy, 60 Army, 61 Navy, original Colt 51, 60, 61, & Whitney .36 Navy, $7.50
MP1702 Loading Lever Latch Pin for Remington Revolver & Spiller & Burr $3.50
MP1725 Hand and Spring for Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr, and Whitney $5.95
SP1715 Triggerguard Screw for Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr $3.50
SP1721 Trigger and Stop Screw for the Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr $3.50
SP1730 Hand Screw for the Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr $3.50
YP1817 Trigger for Repro. Colt 1851 Navy, Colt 1860 Army,1861 Navy, Original Colt 1851, 1860, 1861 & Conv. and Repro. .36/.44, $7.50
TP1714 Trigger and Stop Spring Screw for the Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr $3.50
TP1667 Loading Lever Latch Spring $3.50
SP1720 Hammer Screw for Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr $3.50
TP1716 Mainspring for the Remington Revolver & Whitney .36 Navy , Spiller & Burr $4.00
NP1355 Nipple - 6mm X .75 Steel (Metric Size - #11 Cap Size) $3.50

I grabbed a spare nipple as a "just in case" I need one.

As a side note, I might fit the revolver with Lace Wood grips... this will definitely offset the looks on it!

Gents,
I did get my parts from DGW, and many will fit, from my above post.

However, I just got done rolling through another gunshow. Low and behold as I was heading for the door, I noticed another "steel frame" parts pistol. I almost instantly recognized it for what it was... another 1861 Eli Whitney repop. This one had a finished grip, a hammer spring, a trigger and trigger spring. Along with a barrel. What is different about this one, is that it is a "Richland Arms Co." pistol as compared to "Dixie Gun Works" version. The Richland Arms has much better fit and finish on all existing components. However, it has more abuse and rust. Combining the two together, I get this:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4b362dd6-1.jpg

I also noticed that the barrel is LONGER on the Dixie Gun Works version!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...668bbecd-1.jpg

When I opened up the Richland, I found that the lock and trigger spring was broken. I though that I had purchased a spare, but unfortunately I did not!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...52ca10a7-1.jpg

My timing was off by a substancial margin. Cleaning up the advance mechanism was a snap!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1732e03d-1.jpg

Filing of this advancing mechanism brought all my chambers into alignment. Left to do is get my cylinder stop spring in place.

My big beef as of right now, is the missing cross pin/ mechanism/ bolt. Any words of wisdom on this part?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...778914a9-1.jpg

Here are some random shot of the Eli Whitney as a Richland Arms frame.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e8e81717-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8e193337-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...50bb9f8e-1.jpg

As I get smarter, and find more parts for these Eli Whitneys, I will dress out the second frame. I am curious on laws for making this into a carbine and or going centerfire...

Hope you folks enjoyed the progress and the photos. As was mentioned, the Eli Whitney is relatively obscure, and a little more rare than the Navy and Army repops. To run across 2 in close gunshows demonstrates that either I got lucky, or they aren't that rare!

Those cylinder locks/"bolts" do seem to break with some regularity. I had a Spiller & Burr replica that ate two of them over the years. As far as what parts can be made to interchange with other models, it seems that getting drop in parts for the exact model is no easy task at times! Your missing cross pin can probably be fabricated from scratch on your lathe well enough to be servicable.

I have this feeling of dejá vu already... Someone else had a similar problem recently. What you have is an Italian replica (now replicas). If you look very closely at the sides of the barrel, where it say "BLACK POWDER" you should find an Italian proof mark, date code, and a manufacturer's stamp. It could be on the other side, of course...

Post photos or a detailed description of what you find, and I may be able to tell you who made it and when. That would increase your chances of finding the correct parts. If you start mixing parts from various makers and models, you could spend a lot of time fettling them until they fit and function properly.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midmichigun

I am curious on laws for making this into a carbine and or going centerfire...

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Your life insurance company will confirm what I am writing: Do NOT, repeat NOT try to convert a percussion revolver into a cartridge revolver, even if you swear only to use black powder. The cylinder is just not strong enough, and is considerably weakened by boring out the nipple seats to take the cartridge cases.

And if you even have the slightest notion of firing nitro-charged cartridges - that would be suicidal.

Patrick there is a company that makes centre fire cylinders for black powder revolvers. But yes I feel the same way you do about it.


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@Midmichigun
It might be this part you're looking for: Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.
/Matt

The revolver is an Italian replica. So if you need to make any replacement screws, expect them to be a metric thread, quite possibly a fine metric thread. Ditto for nipples. Go carefully, and do not try to force in US threads, just because the original was a US revolver!

Thanks guys!
@ WhitneySwede... that is the exact part that I need. Somehow I searched DGW and didn't find that part!
Here is a completed photo sans the cross pin
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dacf207e-1.jpg
It does say something about the part not being in, for the requested ordered amount. I will see what happens...
I am considering tracing out the hammer and milling a new one out for the extra frame. Then I would be missing the cylinder and loading mechanism...
Still... just glad to have 1 nearly done!:surrender:

Midmich, Good project -- They would look good in a presentation case with compartments for moulds and assceories. I'm trying to think where else you might find a hammer and cylinder. Maybe EBAY if you are patient. Salt Flat

I think I found a cylinder but it is $$$ especially for BP.... And well towards the cost of a chromoly steel cowboy action cylinder.
A hammer could be burned out of plate, or convert a typical cheap CVA. But I would prefer to not fabricate to hard.
I was thinking the same thoughts on the loading/ ramrod system.
If you can imagine, I already look like Tuco from the Good, Bad and The Ugly swapping out parts to get that magic combo!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midmichigun

I think I found a cylinder but it is $$$ especially for BP.... And well towards the cost of a chromoly steel cowboy action cylinder.
If you can imagine, I already look like Tuco from the Good, Bad and The Ugly swapping out parts to get that magic combo!

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Midmich, I cracked up when I saw this about Tuco. That is one of my favorite movie scenes of all time and reminds me of when I was a kid in the 60's. We used to go into the Pawn shops down in the skid road district of Seattle and scope out all the old guns in the display cases. We were about 14 and they would kick us out on a regular basis. We were lucky they didn't give us a Pulp fiction type tour of the basement!The thing I remember most is in the old Central Loan they had a Gatling gun and cases full of lugers and Civil War era Colt's . Salt Flat

My father bought this Whitney revolver around 1950 (paid $5) Many years ago we fired it a few times, everything worked. The serial number is 10267 H.A. and this number is close to known units. There appear to be two types of of the loading lever design, this one is the more common type.. There is also a website for owners of original Whitney revolvers, believe there are around 250 members.

I have seen some photos of early Whitney cartridge conversions in a older American Rifleman article, not many were converted. I did not know there were any repro kits available years ago, thanks for the information.Attachment 42271Attachment 42272

Sometime ago, I bought two smokeless 38 S&W cal 1851 cylinders from a gunsmith, these were from a company called Legal Defender and used to convert the '51 Italian repros to use the 38 S&W cartridge. Over the next few years my friend in FLA found two 36 cal revolvers at
the gun shows, both were abused and missing the loading levers, one cylinder and a pair of grips, the bores were alright. One was an 1861 and the other 1851. I converted both to use
the 38 S&W cylinders, bought new internal parts, made the ejector housings, recoil plates and loading gates. You have to use the Colt 1873 mainspring too.
The balance on the 1851 is excellent and I would say better than the Colt 1873 and I could understand the gunfighters preference for the '51 conversion.Attachment 42283Attachment 42284Attachment 42285Attachment 42286Attachment 42287Attachment 42288Attachment 42289

RCS,
That is truly Epic!
And that is basically what I am interested in doing for perhaps one of the eli whitneys. I know that in the US thousands (former pistols) were converted from BP to centerfire via the Fed govt as a stop gap measure.
Thanks for sharing this "transition" in history!
Nice "bringing back" a few pistols.... as you all can note, these usually languish since they have little collector value (as repops)... and the cool factor wears off.
I have a buddy who recently bought the kit to convert his Army to a centerfire configuration. He does note that the cost is rather high to convert these..... I put him onto the sources for the kits....

I am not familiar with the new cowboy action conversion kits with the firing pins located for each cylinder chamber, they are expensive. The original Remington revolver conversion was not as simple as the Colt conversions (Richards - Mason) and I think the Whitney is very much like the Remington.

I think that rather than have a cowboy action conversion kit, that I would rather just save-up and buy a Navy Arms Colt 1872 conversion or a 1860 conversion in 44 Colt.

I changed grips on my 51 conversion (photos) to repro ivory 51 grips. When you remove the loading lever from the 51 you really improve the balance Attachment 42303Attachment 42304

Target was almost 30 feet and smokless Unique powder was used (could have use black powder too) Different type and bullet weight will change the point of aim, oneAttachment 43008 thing I forgot to do that was done on original conversions - was to make a dovetail front sight for adjustment