MN 91/30 sniper rifle

I picked up a nice 1943 MN 91/30 sniper rifle a couple of days ago, one of the ones which were likely FTR'd in the 1950's. It has a 1941 dated scope on it which has nice clear optics. I'm looking forward to taking it to the range some time (in the misty future) when I have time. I find it odd, though, that the scope mount is set up so high. Granted, the Lee Enfield #4(T) has a cheekpiece installed, but compared to the Lee, the Ross and most Mauser sniper rifles, it seems like you have to have your head held fairly high up to get a good sight picture through the scope on the Mosin--almost a "jaw weld" to the stock instead of a cheek weld. Is it my imagination, or would you have your head sticking up a little higher using one of these than you might like to? I collect mostly British, Canadian and German stuff, so don't know a lot about these. Was it an issue at all with Russian snipers getting their heads shot off?

Ed

Apparently it wasn't an issue, the Soviet snipers were the most successful of the entire war, high mount or not.

Oh, not arguing with their success. The Eastern Front was massive, with high casualties on both sides, and much close quarters fighting. I'm just wondering if the casualty rates were higher amongst the snipers than expected?

Ed

Casualty rates among the Soviet Snipers were very high but probably due to their training or lack of it. They didn't really have a special school for it, if you shot well, you were sent off for a short training and sent to the front. I've read a couple of books written by Soviet soldiers during WWII and the total lack of regard for their lives by the higher ups is appalling to me.

Casualty rates for Soviet soldiers period were very high. They simply overwhelmed the Germans with numbers if everything else failed.

Soviet infantry was in 3 ranks;
First rank – Rifle and ammo ( first in line, first to dye )
Second rank – more ammo and a pistol ( use the rifle of the dead guy in front of you, if he tries to turn & run, shoot him with the pistol and use his rifle )
Third rank – pick up whatever you can find to use and don’t turn around or the officers behind you will shoot you.

So I have heard . . .

There were definitely schools for Soviet snipers. Vassilly Z. was head of such a school in Stalingrad and his students were referred to as "little hares". There were 2000 Soviet female snipers and all were trained in a special sniper school. Public schools had shooter programs for their pre-service age students, who also competed and were given shooters badges and awards. Many snipers were selected based on their prior experience, awards, etc.. They were starting with known talented marksmen and women.

The Soviets had the most advanced snipers and best equiptment when the war opened. They maintained their edge and the Germans never caught up. The early Soviet scopes were designed and licensed by Ziess, licensed and built on equiptment purchased from Zeiss. They learned, simplified and improved the designs. The PEM mount was espeially robust, as were the scopes. The PU was much less expensive, still rugged, simple and effective. It could be manufactured in huge numbers rapidly and cheaply. Huge numbers were effectively fielded. Qunantity has a quality all its own.

If anyone did not train their snipers, it was the US. Give a shooter a scoped rifle and call him the sniper.

The Russians used their snipers differently than other nations. Get down into the prone position with a PU sniper and look down the iron sights - have a shot at 50 or 100 yards? 200 yards? Iron sights are perfect. Pick up a target at 300 yards or more? You can easily transition to the scope for the shot.

The placement of the PU scope made the rifle - and the soldier - multi-purpose. If you readZaitsev's book you will see that snipers accompanied the troops forward during attacks. In some cases they carried automatic rifles, too. Or, they could use the iron sights as neededuntil they were in position to provide eeper covering fire.

I love my MN sniper, great shooter, love the sight adjustment and sight picture. Re the high mounting, I guess it's simply a matter of access to the iron sites, they are high on the MN,
Mike

boltaction: Getting back to your question, I was curious and placed my No. 4T and my M-N sniper on a rest and compared the "cheek weld". The M-N is lower but still in mid cheek along lower molars. No. 4 felt like a quarter to half inch higher at most- surprising. Actually tried to measure how high off the desk the top of my head was and essentially identical. So the M-N compares well position-wise and allows instant use of iron sights. Fails on aesthetics, of course, but as a weapon of war................

Ridolpho

Not a big thing to overcome we in the West are spoiled..

300 Yards
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1cbff7e6-1.jpg

Great shooting Montrey Jack. As can be seen these were good for head shot at 300 meters fairly consistently with a good shooter and ammo. Great looking rifle too.

As Col. Mark say, these rifles were used in various roles to include support fire, accuracy/designated marksmen, sniper role on key personel and counter sniper. It was common for V. Z. and other snipers and/or their spotters to carry a sub-machinegun as well. Mark and many others have recently been shooting these rifles in sniper matches out to as much as 1000 yds with impressive results.

300 yards? Good shooting sir!

Mike don't be giving me the credit so fast the rifle like the ammo.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...096fae26-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by MJ1

Not a big thing to overcome we in the West are spoiled..

300 Yards
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1cbff7e6-1.jpg

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Finn MJ1?

Imported by a Finn guy in Minn. around '91.He was a uniform collector and had one of the early web sites for Finn parts and uniforms back then. When he passed his family tried to run the show buy closed around '93. I think his handle was Finnbear but it's been a long time. All matching rifle bolt and base. Post war bracket I had on hand but the scope came with the rifle.

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Originally Posted by MJ1

Imported by a Finn guy in Minn. around '91.He was a uniform collector and had one of the early web sites for Finn parts and uniforms back then. When he passed his family tried to run the show buy closed around '93. I think his handle was Finnbear but it's been a long time. All matching rifle bolt and base. Post war bracket I had on hand but the scope came with the rifle.

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Very nice. I've hot an ex Finn PE I need to rescope. Looking forward to shooting it.

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Originally Posted by tower06

Very nice. I've hot an ex Finn PE I need to rescope. Looking forward to shooting it.

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Rescope that Finn PE. It is well worth an original PE scope and hopefully original mount. They are pretty rare. Best numbers known suggest that 185 Finn snipers were imported in various degrees of completeness. That is all types, mostly PE and PEM with a few PUs thrown in.

I dealt with Finnbear for decades at the OVMS. I acquired my SVT40 sniper from him. he brought it back from one of his trips. It is not SA marked. I miss him.