Looking to buy that No32 'scope.........
If you have spotted a likely looking No32 telescope on Ebay, there’s a chance that the only view you’ll get of it is the outside – all newly painted and looking spick and span. Oh, yes….., you’ll also have a carefully worded or guarded description about how good it is and all of the usual crxx. But as many of you (and me, as I see some of ‘em them afterwards…….) soon realize, these careful words really mean zilch once you’ve got it.
So, what do you REALLY need to look for? Well, I’ll tell you what you DON’T need to look for first…….. You do of course, but these things are pretty academic in the great scheme of things. This little essay isn’t the final word and some of the other experts with more or even less experience than me please feel free to add or pass valuable comment.
First is the general condition of the outside. Look, they’re all about 70 years old and some have led a pretty hard life so if the one you are looking at or happen to buy is a bit tatty and pitted, what the hell….., they’re made of drawn steel tube and that’s the nature of the beast. What is a bad sign is one that is thin and pitted right through the ocular end. On the face of it, this might look like a ‘scope to be avoided. The material is very thin at the ocular end simply because the ocular bell-end has been either hydraulically pressed into shape or spun into shape and the thinning of the material is what happens. But I’ll let you into a secret. This thin/pitted/crushed or otherwise heavily damaged ocular end can be machined away from under the rearmost cradle bracket area then internally threaded. A new GOOD ocular end from a donor No42 or 53 can be accurately cut, machined to size and externally threaded to suit. Once both threaded parts have been sweated and screwed together under heat at the melting point of solder, all that will be visible will be a thin hairline. But even then, this hairline will be under the cradle so the strength is intact. I show this in photograph form in an earlier article so maybe one of the more computer literate forumers could cross reference this part of the article with that. BUT, be warned……. The skill in doing this is with the person doing it because the optical axis of the new ocular end MUST be on the same optical axis as the main tube otherwise…. I won’t go into why but suffice to say, that both optical axis must be linear.
Having told you this, then it stands to reason that if the tube forward of the turret housing is damaged, then a similar repair will be similarly ‘easy’ too doesn’t it? This event occurs when previous owners have grafted on a large diameter OG lens assembly in order to gain greater FoV
Next, let’s look at the lenses. I know that we go on and on about these but in truth, even if you had to have a complete new set of lenses made at, say £75 – 80 each, it’d probably cost you £375 - 400. You’ll understand now why a good No42 or 53 for under £100 is good value to a needy No32 owner…… So what’s the worry? The GOOD news is that it is very rare for the erector cell lenses to be damaged because they are protected deep within the bowels of the tube and then, inside a sealed cell. Where they CAN be destroyed is within a Mk3 or L1A1 where the lens cell has to be heated up to break the rock hard cement like mastic to such an extent that it destroys the glass. Not common, but it has happened. The alternative is to destroy the lenses by brutally driving out the erector cell from the OG end. Unlike the Mk1 and 2, the Mk3 and L1A1 erector can only be removed through the rear. So here is the first question you need to ask if you’re looking at a Mk3 or L1A1 telescope
‘Is the main tube dented anywhere from the two rings of the sector cover for 3” rearwards’?
If it is, then the only way that a damaged or dirty or defective erector cell is coming out is by brute force – at YOUR expense!
Taking a basic No42 or 53 telescope, here are the parts that are fully interchangeable with parts for your No32 telescope
Ocular lens set and spacer, No42 Mk1 and early Mk2’s
Ocular lens retaining ring, No42 As above
Ocular lens assy. with housing, No53 Late Mk2 and all 3’s*
Erector cell assembly All
Locking segment All
Segment cover All except some ‘2screw’ Mk3’s
OG lens Mk1’s and 2’s but **
Front shade Mk1’s and 2’s only^
* Can be used in Mk1 and early Mk2 if brazed inner collar removed
**While the OG lens will fit into a Mk3 tube, it is .038” or so undersize and therefore a sloppy fit. As such, it will always act as an eccentric lens and any zeroing will be at best, unreliable. At worst, crap! BUT…, there is even a way around this too!
^ some versions can be threaded deeper to fit Mk3’s but not all
That’s the good news but there’s also some bad news too, so here goes. What you won’t find are the spare parts that I haven’t mentioned so we’ll start there with THE CLICKER PLUNGERS. These are the spring loaded plungers that give the range and deflection scales their distinct ‘click’ and are notorious for snapping at the shoulder of the shaft and head, tilting and jambing up the mechanism. The Mk1 and 2 plungers are a real pig to manufacture, believe me. Too hard and they will simply grind away the case hardened (or occasionally sintered) teeth on the clicker plates. Too soft and the hard clicker plate serrations will wear the plungers away, virtually while you’re looking at them. If you are a Mk1 owner, it’s simple. Just replace the plungers with 5mm steel ball bearings. Alas, not on the Mk2 and 3 because the pitch of the clicker plate teeth renders the use of 5mm balls useless. New Mk2 and 3 plungers have been manufactured but as you can imagine, not cheap so don’t grizzle!
Lets look into the turret housing now. The range and deflection mechanism works along a multi-start screw threaded system of what are basically nuts and bolts pulling a cursor slide for deflection and diaphragm nut for range. If any of these parts are missing, then you are in BIG schtuck! Don’t assume that because you can SEE a grat and/or a crosswire that these parts are present because it doesn’t necessarily follow. So on that basis, one question you MUST always ask is this.
‘Does rotating the range and deflection drum move the grat left/right and up/down’.
If it does, then those important parts are present. If the answer is evasive or they don’t move, then think again. It could spell BIG trouble. One I was presented with recently, bought unseen from ‘that’ auction site was missing the complete range diaphragm and nut. This simple question could have saved the day. (although to be fair, the ‘scope in question had been waterlogged and was too fogged/misted to see through although a quick look through from the OG/front end would have identified the problem) And yes, before you ask, the drums turned and the clickers clicked too.
What else do we need to know…….? Ah, yes. It goes without saying that if you’re offered a telescope missing the range or deflection drum(s) then avoid it like the plague unless a) you have a friend who is a VERY competent model engineer and b) a set from which he can back engineer new. And if they’re missing, then so will the lead screws plungers and springs, diaphragm and on a Mk3, the diaphragm shoes and springs too! That leads us on to the next question that you need to ask because a bit of judicious photography might have disguised the fact…
‘Are any parts missing’? followed up with ‘Are any screws missing either’? Not that screws can’t be easily replaced BUT it’s another indication that a parts is missing – even if it’s just the screw! The days when every Instrument Shop had a drawer full of old Mk2 drum assemblies left over from converting them to Mk2/1’s are long over
That’s just about it. So how do I summarise this? I’d say ignore a tatty old tube and even broken and dirty lenses. These things can be easily fixed. But take a good, long hard look and reconsider when it’s a case of missing internal parts.
Hey……, and while you’re there…… If you like this article or have learned anything, then tick the thanks box. It won’t cost you a penny but it’s a means of feedback for me! And feel free to add your comments
Worth adding here - Sept '16 - that a small figure 6 on or close to the locking segment cover plate indicates that the cover plate screws have been opened up to 6BA as a minor repair
Another misrepresented "sniper scope"
Here is another posting from the jolly old UK for a "very rare WWI sniper scope:
http://ww w.ebay.com/itm/300895575251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4608wt_1146
When I sent a very well meaning message to explain what he really had (and just because it has PH scope rings - that does not make it a PH sniper scope). Well, I just received a rather "rude" reply from this seller basically telling me to bugger-off.
The extent some people will go to to propogate a falshood never fails to astound me.
Jim
Refurbishing a No 32 scope - A beginners guide???
I have 3 No 32 scopes in varying states of decay and I would like to put them in as good a condition as possible, so any help would be gratefully appreciated.
1)Is it easy to strip and rebuild a No 32 scope in order to de-rust it, and what special tools materials(Mastic) if any are required?.
2)Would electrolytic de-rusting be better than bead(soda) blasting or would both be benficial?.
3)Should I get the Reticle refurbished or leave the old one if it looks OK?.
4)Should the bracket which is numbered to the rifle stay with the scope or would it be OK to split them and put the Scope on a repro bracket using the original bracket for another No32?.
5)What finish would be best for a de-rusted No 32, blueing or phosphating and Suncorite?.
6)Is it worth replacing a chipped lens when it does not interfere with the sight picture?.
7)Are the L1A1 turrets readily available to convert a Mk3 to L1A1 spec. or should I just leave it as a Mk3?. (To go onto a L42 clone)
8)When the No32 is removed from and replaced on its mounts, should it retain Zero or is it advisable to keep the scope on the rifle permanently?.
9)Did the tolerances of bracket, scope and pads when fitting a No32 to a rifle, allow for swapping scopes, with or without their brackets to other rifles with pads fitted, or is it always a matter of individual tayloring?.
Ans to Merlin266 Question
Accu mounts do them they are on fleabay look under lee enfield in militaria and hit world wide search you have to buy the 2 pad set that's the only thing
Try this link - Pads 4 LEE Enfield British 303 NO 4 Sniper Scope Mount | eBay
P.S the forumers here reckon Accumounts do a good job of the repro pads and the brackets you will have to get the screws as well Peter Laidler would be able to tell you the size/length and thread pitch
4 Attachment(s)
Thought I would share with you
Just some pics of my fathers fitting books he brought back with him there were 0000's printed but only this set belonged to him therefore they have a special place with me.
I do collect all sortsa military stuff but nothing comes close in my collection to the value of these 4 books.
The basic fitting one Dad may have borrowed from the person so named he cannot tell me this now but I thought I would just share with you this little part of my Dad.
It is all I have now 1 RAAF pic, his medals, service pay book, discharge cert and these 4 books.
Though I do not forget those fathers that never had the chance to meet their children and vice versa they having paid the ultimate price.......
