Remington M1917 New Addition

I just picked this up last night and have not had the time to go through it in detail. From what I've read it appears to be in its original as built configuration having no re-work stamps, correctly marked Remington components when viewed without disassembly and hollow shank expanded barrel ring screws. At this point I am not going to disassemble it, just gentle cleaning and off to the range. The end of stock is stamped with and "R" (serifs possibly?) preceeded with the number "2". What, if anything, does the number represent? I've only seen letters to date. Inspector marks and associated numbers on the stock near the trigger guard are within the Remington range. Here's a reference link. I will post my photos when I get done cleaning it

Classic Remington Arms M1917 Enfield : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com


Thanks for help and comments
John

A quote from the advert text:

"BORE CONDITION: To answer a customer question, we shined a bore-light down the barrel. We have not cleaned the barrel, but condition appears good: The rifling is distinctive, while not "bright" it is by no means "dark", and while there are is a very slight amount of fouling present, it does not appear pitted."

I am always surprised that sellers cannot be bothered to clean a bore - or perhaps they would rather not know what is under the muck?
Please let us know how it turns out when you have cleaned it up!

Apart from that reserve, it looks like a fair rifle for the date, condition and price (over here!). Just like my Eddystone in fact, which turned out to be an A1 shooter.

Yes, I agree that it is a simple thing to clean the bore and address an important question to many. I haven't had any time to date to clean it up [I]other than the bore. I patched it, brushed it and took a look. The patches came out surprisingly clean. When I viewed the bore prior to cleaning it looked a little dark with a spattering of "lint". Well, it's nice and bright, no frosting noted, grooves and lands sharp and clean! Whew! I suspect the piece was cleaned and oiled lightly prior to being stored in a fabric lined gun case for a long time. My biggest frustration was that I can't find my GI bore scopes to take a better look. I just rearranged things and can't remember the clever place I put them :confused: I'm sure they'll be found in the last place I look, again. Thanks, John

It will be interesting to see what you got there (the listing had wrong information as to "finish history)

Very nice gun regardless and the following is not a nasty, just info for those interested in background (and then the exceptions) exist so its not cast in concrete, also just a general guide

More or less there conditions
1. Original WWI blue (black) that never saw an re-arsenal or clean up

2. Post WWI where they did a go through, sand blasted and parkerized them and then stored and then they got released latter (often little or never shot, new barrels and lots of mixed parts though so far the barrel and receivers seem to have same mfg so possibly a not shot WWI)

3. GE did some re-condition and possibly not parked

4. Post WWII with re-do and JA barrels if they needed it.

There was no need for a pre WWII re-do as they had massive stocks of these to draw from that had been gone through. I see no evidence they wasted time or money on that. The post WWII work still puzzles me as the value was not there but it would have been for the 1903 A3s as a reserve.

The one poster above got a Canadian one that had a TE or 11 so it was likely shot with blanks.

Some were -re-blued by private parties and the finish will be very nice but not WWI original.

The TE condition and bore are tough as no one seems to have the gauges and thats at least a guide to what the condition and history is (and only a guide, its good, ok or well shot but a well shot one can shoot better than a nice TE-MW for other reasons than that as those values only tell you how much its been shot, not how good the barrel and stock setup is.

I would guess yours is a very nice WWI original blue that got side tracked and did not see servcie or the service it saw was guard duty as it looks to be very good.

Possible re-blue but can't see enough details.

After reading two books, examining a few at area gunshows and some experience with other firearms I felt comfortable taking the plunge. I agree with your comment about the posting. There were a couple of things in the post that piqued my interest both stated and unstated. I will be carefully and conservativly cleaning it up. What details/areas would be helpful to you or others? Before and after photos or just the latter?

Just a general thought on stock treatment.

Do you clean them up or leave them as is?

Currently I am just leaving them based on the idea once you clean them you can't go back, but you can always clean them up latter.

Is it really part of the history and should not be or does not matter?

I have no answers but I think good question to ask.

I have seen too many that were sanded down and then refinished and thats depressing

I clean them. First I remove any loose dirt with a soft brush, wipe with dilute Murphy's Soap on a damp cloth, dry and buff with another dry soft cloth. I make no attempt to steam out dents although I may carefully remove paint splatter. Nothing radical and does not change the appearance or feel at all. Besides, I feel a little better about handling the piece not having to worry about residual "ear wax". Couldn't agree more, sanded down is depressing. BTW, I found my bore scopes (above). The rifling is bright and clean. I'll attach photos when I get this rifled cleaned up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RC20

Do you clean them up or leave them as is?

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Clean - Yes
Because grime, grease, "earwax" and the like are not "part of its history" but dirt. Get it off. That is just proper maintenance, not falsification.

Refinish - No
Because the original finish was an integral part of the rifle, put there for a purpose, not to look pretty. Dings do not affect performance.

Repair
Something like a split stock, caused by wood becoming dry and fragile over the decades or improper handling can also be repaired, as that also fall in the area of proper maintenance.

What do I mean by "proper maintenance"?
Whatever would have been done in service to keep the rifle functioning, not to pretty it up. As a lot of our old service rifles have suffered a lack of proper maintenance over the last century or so, we have to make up for that in order to keep them functioning properly.

I finished cleaning this up without total disassembly as I mentioned before having taken some photos to share. I'm quite pleased. Eagle/number are all Remington as well as a capital "R" correctly. I found my bore scope and the rifling is beautiful. Sorry for the poor photo... Can't wait to shoot it! Interesting to see the wear on various parts: barrel band, tang adjacent to the safety release, bolt release and magazine bottom plate. Interested in your comments. If you need additional, just ask.
Thanks and enjoy,
John

The 2 R means its the two grove Remington that did not work out and you should ship the stock to me ASAP before someone finds out!

Not a clue. Have not seen a number on a stock like that, I have seen some blanks and a few other marks for replacements (agnostic apparently).

Looks good. My Eddystone is similar with the OEM finish. A bit more wear hear and less there but overall close.

[QUOTE=RC20;252906]The 2 R means its the two grove Remington that did not work out and you should ship the stock to me ASAP before someone finds out!

Probably a typo (I'm very experienced), does "grove" = groove? Which grooves are you referencing? Does that help to better define the window of assembly?

Thanks,
John