My new 1905 B.S.A. No 1 Mk I***

Well, here is my new baby! Quickly becoming my favorite. I keep trying to upload photos on other forums as well but am having trouble (resolution too big).

(Crown)
E.R.
B.S.A.Co
1905
ShtLE
I ** (maybe a third hard to tell)

Missing buttstock disk (removed before issue to the Irish?)
1st Variation Cocking piece
Properly has cut off slot but no cut off
Charging guide on bolt
3 different SNs: 1st = S 70814, 2nd = ER 2208, 3rd(final) = G1992
Rear sight buttons have bone on both sides but cracked

On left side butt socket is stamped A(D on its back or * can't tell)11
Volley sight present
Marked 111 or III

Proof Mark: Crown over ER over crossed flags over (unintelligeable but appears to be 2 characters) definitely not "P" or "N"

Magazine appears to be 2nd variation but markings are:
on rear is stamped with what looks like on overstrike 3 along with EFD over 28 and other marks
follower is marked 2 over an R(vertical arrow)F, over EFD F1
Under rear sight barrel marked HV for high velocity rounds
base of rear sight has a sunburst pattern

Bore looks very nice! Just realized the Safety doesn't function properly (weapon fires in any position) but still couldn't be happier!

Well, same problems. Can't get all the photos to post, but here are a few. I hope you like! Will try to get more pics uploaded.

Attachment 40272Attachment 40280Attachment 40281Attachment 40282My Enfield 1904 Mark 1 *** also has three serial numbers, the two being lined-out and the last on is G 839. It would appear that a number of the Mark 1*** rifles converted to grenade
launching had a new serial with a G pre-fix. But it also appears that some were converted back to an issue rifle. There is a faint sign of my rear handguard having the wire-wrap while
the fore-end is a correct later Mark 1 replacement without any sign of wire wrap.

I am unable to identify the markings on the stock disk

Here are some more low resolution photos. I have since found that the SN on the cocking piece is different than the bolt handle and receiver. Rear sight is original. Hoping I can somehow get the safety/trigger assembly repaired without having to un-do the wire wrapping. Will likely leave alone if that is the case.

Thanks for the feedback. Interesting disk. I would love to research what disk might have been on mine as well (unlikely though it may be). As I understand it isn't necessarily incorrect for mine to have the cut off slot but no cut off. These things are awesome!

thanks for posting these mark 1s,they are to me the finest looking of all the SMLEs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by user1

thanks for posting these mark 1s,they are to me the finest looking of all the SMLEs

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Agree. Very nice. I've never seen a grenade launcher with volley sights and windage still intact. Keeper.

There shouldn't be any problem fixing the safety. Ordinary old SMLE MkIII will fit, in fact the safety lever on yours is already a MkIII. The only difference was the way they were marked.
Very nice rifle, mate! Congrats! Thanks for sharing the pics.

BTW, the MkI rifles were never "No1" anything... The No1 rifle tag wasn't brought in until 1926, long after all the Mk1 rifles had been returned to store. In fact, at the same time they were declared obsolete and as they couldn't be on converted to No1 rifle specs economically, they were ordered stripped for parts and scrapped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Son

There shouldn't be any problem fixing the safety. Ordinary old SMLE MkIII will fit, in fact the safety lever on yours is already a MkIII. The only difference was the way they were marked.
Very nice rifle, mate! Congrats! Thanks for sharing the pics.

BTW, the MkI rifles were never "No1" anything... The No1 rifle tag wasn't brought in until 1926, long after all the Mk1 rifles had been returned to store. In fact, at the same time they were declared obsolete and as they couldn't be on converted to No1 rifle specs economically, they were ordered stripped for parts and scrapped.

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Excellent info Son, thank you. So the correct designation is just the ShtLE Mk I? I am pretty amazed at the history of this one. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that it likely served in the Great War with a British/Commonwealth unit. Then was transferred to the Irish National Army at the time of the Independence Treaty and subsequent hostilities. At that point or shortly thereafter converted to grenade firing capability and perhaps saw service in WW II? If this is feasible, likely, it is utterly astounding to me and has instantly become my favorite firearm. Mind boggling. And to think the thousands of people waiting in line and getting in my way were looking at modern items with no history whatsoever and paying significantly more.

As for the safety the problem is the rifle will fire with the switch in either position. I also notice much slop in the trigger. I suspect the issue is inside the trigger / safety linkage somewhere. I wasn't sure if that was accessible without unwrapping the wire and removing the forearm.

The safety acts directly onto the cocking piece at the rear of the bolt. There are two parts in there, one is the lever you see.. it has a rod that it pivots on that has a flat side at the end which engages or disengages the cocking piece to hold it back off the trigger sear. That way, when the safety is engaged, the trigger can be pulled with no resistance other than the spring. The other part winds onto it from the back with a multi start thread. If it hasn't been started in the correct position, it might be holding the safety lever out far enough to stop it working. If you undo the screw that is in the bottom of the dumbell spring, the whole safety will come out in your hand. If somebody doesn't beat me to it, I'll dredge up some pics a little later.

Yes.. it has a lot of history, that one.... May not have made active service in WW2, but could well have been a home guard issue. Not sure if the GF converted MkI's were declared obsolete when the plain rifles were. Someone here will know....

Son, Thank you for the mechanical advise. Might have saved me a ton in labor! Even if no WW2 history it matters not. I am still all geeked up about this rifle. I have a pretty nice collection of weapons but this thing oozes the history!

Always difficult to find in the USA, is the Mark 1*** that is "without" the Irish pre-fix CR or ER
(or even G) and a new serial number. This BSA 1906 also has the matching barrel, bolt, rear sight, fore-end but not the magazine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Son

The safety acts directly onto the cocking piece at the rear of the bolt. There are two parts in there, one is the lever you see.. it has a rod that it pivots on that has a flat side at the end which engages or disengages the cocking piece to hold it back off the trigger sear. That way, when the safety is engaged, the trigger can be pulled with no resistance other than the spring. The other part winds onto it from the back with a multi start thread. If it hasn't been started in the correct position, it might be holding the safety lever out far enough to stop it working. If you undo the screw that is in the bottom of the dumbell spring, the whole safety will come out in your hand. If somebody doesn't beat me to it, I'll dredge up some pics a little later.

Yes.. it has a lot of history, that one.... May not have made active service in WW2, but could well have been a home guard issue. Not sure if the GF converted MkI's were declared obsolete when the plain rifles were. Someone here will know....

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Well, I disassembled the safety and found an additional washer that I don't believe is supposed to be there (since it does have the volley sight). I can't tell if the locking bolt or safety catch have been broken or worn. Is the "safe" position to the rear or to the front? I am fiddling with the proper starting point of the threads. I have found every variation so far that allows it to not fire at all or to always fire but NOT safe in one position and fire in the other. I love a puzzle, just don't want to break expensive parts or wear the threads on the screw/safety catch.

Ok... The half flat on the inside end of the safety shaft looks to be a bit messed up. Looking into the hole it goes in, you can see the bottom of the cocking piece is at the middle of the hole. In the fire position (the lever is forward) the flat on the shaft goes under the cocking piece. In the safe position, (safety lever right back) the shaft has turned 90degreesand will locate into a spot on the side of the cocking piece when cocked, that will move it rearward so the sear is not contacting it.
Terminology aside- (it will confuse the issue to try to use it)
To position the lever and the other bit, wind the other bit on all the way so stops in position for putting it in the rifle in the safety off position (Forward)
Leave the washer out,( not sure of it's purpose, but it isn't supposed to be there) and put the volley sight arm and the dumbell spring on, fit the screw. (Maybe the dumbell spring is bent and the washer was taking up the space???)
The top end of "other bit", when the safety is moved rearward to safe position, will wind inward locking the bolt body preventing it from being opened while the rifle is in safe.
If it doesn't fire when lever rearward, and the trigger should have only sear spring weight, no mainspring feel with the lever back, then the safety lever is doing it's job.

with any luck I haven't confused you too much... it's late here and probably shows in my description :confused:

A couple of pics which may help to illustrate Son's description. From left to right;
Safety off.
Safety on.
Locking bolt engaging cocking piece at the full cock position.
What an undamaged one should look like.

Attachment 40348Attachment 40349Attachment 40350Attachment 40351

Thank You Son and Steve.

I feel a bit ignorant, haven't looked it up yet, I'm sure it is on here somewhere, but how do you remove the Mk I bolt? With the sliding stripper guide it looks more complicated. I am trying to be careful and not do more damage in my haste.

As I look at the photos it does seem my safety is a bit worn / chipped.

Pull the bolt fully to the rear. With your finger, pull the bolt head up until it pops loose from the release spring. Push the charger guide to the rear and rotate the head all the way up and withdraw the bolt.

Steve H, thanks...that was simple. I'm attaching a couple pics. I did get the safety installed correctly so now it will prevent the bolt from being turned. However, when cocked and on safe, still fires. It seems clear that the end of the locking bolt is broken/missing and the safety catch seems worn. Also, there is significant slop in the trigger. It pretty much flops freely with about a 1/2 inch of travel when not cocked. When cocked the travel is much less and less sloppy but I suspect still more than should be. Making progress. Seems most things are drop in fixes. The trigger may be more complicated I suspect.

Unrelated question. It appears, if I am interpreting properly it appears my magazine is a 2nd variation converted to 3rd since the barrel is marked HV for the high velocity rounds. Am I on target? Any particular rarity or uniqueness to this?

Thanks all.

Niels

If I am seeing the picture right then the end of the safety lever is definitely messed up. That being broken would cause the weapon to fire even on safe. You are correct that the magazine case was tweaked to become a 3rd variation case and it is for the reason you noted, a change in ammunition. When this rifle was first built it was calibrated to the Mk VI ammunition, so when the Mk VII became the standard some recalibration and tweaks were required. The magazine case was tweaked and if you look close at the rear sight base and compare it to untouched originals you would see that the ramps for the slider were ground down to recalibrate the sight to work with the Mk VII ammuntion.

here's an original one

Thanks for the picture and input. Luckily Mk III safeties are prevalent on eBay. That is what is on there now.