The MG08

In Europe and Canada there are several fine collections of WWI German MG (with the USA maintaining their live MG shoot capability) so in some respects WWI German MG's are not rare. However towards the end of WWI and after, Canada wins the 'who could take home the most' war trophies :) As a student of the German MG I would like to offer/discuss 3 key areas. This one the MG08. Another thread on the MG08/15 and the third on capture, trg, trophy and accessory.
So to kick off some images of the MG08 with its armour 'package'. The standard armour package being 4 pieces: front armour plate, water jacket armour, one of numerous patterns of larger shield and the inner shield for the sled.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f8189dfd-1.jpg[COLOR="black"]

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Mark

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d75115b2-1.jpg

Good side view of the main water jacket armour. It is fitted to the main body by 2 nuts/bolts to the underside and is very heavy. Incidentally I am looking for one to purchase but as with most things nowadays there are reproductions. Again only used in static positions whereas the front armoured shield was very common.
Mark[COLOR="black"]

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3e4f3f36-1.jpg
Another side view of the main water jacket armour.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fca9b999-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1f9dbdfb-1.jpg
Good view of the front armoured plate that fits over the foresight to protect the front face of the water jacket.

Almost like small field pieces in those days. Thanks for the post....awesome pics!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d591af28-1.jpg
View of the muzzle assembly but side view of armour plate.
Image below is the inner shield to protect the actual machine gunner from frontal small arms fire.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...88fe19e7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...419f94bc-1.jpg[COLOR="black"]

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3bc6e3da-1.jpg

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Some images of the MG08 without its schlitten.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../02/post-1.jpg

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''Fritz always found the best job for the 'new arrival' :)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/08A80-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/Cap26-1.jpg

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Good views of the main water jacket armour again and the trench mount allowing a bit of portability for the MG08.

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...e/parab024.jpg

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2 x 08/15s shown in the other thread but this is a great photo of German ''dummy'' MG08's on sleds and carts. This must surely be for aerial deception purposes!
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y.../Captured1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...efb3fd5b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...345123e1-1.jpg

From France.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07157-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4cc3b97e-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/08A48-1.jpg

A rather dramatic image.......
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e8883a8f-1.jpg

Not often you see translated weapon manuals but here the British unusually copied the French :p
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12f89848-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3778bf2a-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/Cap33-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a4c6e743-1.jpg

Apart from trench mounts the MG08 from period evidence was used without its sled. The gun was carried by one man and either placed on the ground or used with the MG08/15 bipods or T Gewehr bipod (as shown). I assume it must have shaken quite a bit but as an area weapon that would not have mattered much.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...236fd235-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bf68ae4c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f079606d-1.jpg

Digging through the MG library and found these. Might be of interest to someone.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2fe6c61c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9c3feadd-1.jpg

The impact that these weapons and similar ones had on warfare is phenomenal.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02/08A27-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ead8ef6e-1.jpg[COLOR="black"]

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4b0cb19a-1.jpg

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apologies for absence. Now back to contribute.

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Excellent image of various mounts. Note MG01 sled on the far right. A collector's dream!!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/08A106-1.jpg

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[/COLOR]Fritz was determined to be get back home to Munich in time for Christmas!!! :thup:

https://www.milsurps.com/[/URL][/IMG]

I guess this is my day to revive old threads. I didn't any better place to post pictures of my MG08. It is fully functional and legally registered. It is my understanding that such an old '08 is fairly rare as most were used up in the war. The sleigh is a modern reproduction that was hand made in Poland specifically for the US market. These mounts were imported 15 years ago for a fellow in Florida. I was told he imported about ten pieces. The ZF12 is mint perfect and appears to be unused.\

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...N1500721-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SN150073-1.jpg

Here's a thirty second video of Dolf Goldsmith firing my MG08 during one of out little shoots.

http://vid285.photobucket.com/albums...g1914Maxim.mp4

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/08A103-1.jpg

Does anyone have any info/images/detail on the German patt 1914 range finder and associated equipments please?
Mark

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/08A102-1.jpg

Also on water/condenser hose attachments.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/08A98-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/08A90-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MG1918

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...419f94bc-1.jpg[COLOR="black"]

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This picture is a still from the Canadian movie Paschendaele

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...04/08A79-1.jpg

and view of front water jacket armoured plate.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...04/08A78-1.jpg[COLOR="black"]

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...04/08A50-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...785ff077-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4af6bad5-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ae160807-1.jpg

great to see you back and the perfect place for your post!
Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MG34_Dan

I guess this is my day to revive old threads. I didn't any better place to post pictures of my MG08. It is fully functional and legally registered. It is my understanding that such an old '08 is fairly rare as most were used up in the war. The sleigh is a modern reproduction that was hand made in Poland specifically for the US market. These mounts were imported 15 years ago for a fellow in Florida. I was told he imported about ten pieces. The ZF12 is mint perfect and appears to be unused.\

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...N1500721-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SN150073-1.jpg

Here's a thirty second video of Dolf Goldsmith firing my MG08 during one of out little shoots.

[video]http://vid285.photobucket.com/albums/ll70/MG34_Dan/Dolfrunning1914Maxim.mp4[/url]

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4dafa740-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...w4j1ygvi-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...11/08A34-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../11/08A3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12/snow1-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...sy98joa4-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4a1te2di-1.jpg

Also looking for some key 08 parts but need contacts?
VMT
Mark

Apologies to all - PHOTOBUCKET has changed its policy so I must now go back through old posts and alter. Hope all will be well but if not new photos and MG08 topics will still continue.
Mark

Attachment 86307

I have recently seen it suggested that this style of ammo tin was originally made for the MG08 (pre Nazi era) but this information has not been confirmed. The source said that the identifying factors are the different handles and the lack of Nazi era markings. If this is correct it could be post WW1 but no later than when the Nazis came to power in the early 1930s. It also stated that these tins continued to be used through WW2 with the MG34 & MG42.

Flying10uk your box is WWI. Corners and indents are also identifying factors between Imperial and later. Thanks for showing. When you have both 250 rd boxes side by side it is very clear. Sadly I do not have a post WWI example but here are some more random images of WWI boxes, including the 500 rd box which also differs..
Attachment 86323Attachment 86324

Thanks, MG1918, for that. Would the "correct" colour for WW1 German use in Europe be field grey, I'm guessing it would be? I only purchased the tin in post 48 because it looked different to all the other MG34/42 ammo tins in the pile. I didn't have a clue as to the reason in the difference in the appearance between this tin and all the others.

Field Grey is of course the correct 'term' but it really does differ in shades, thickness and environment. Then add unit paint schemes, user re-painting etc and there is a whole range of field grey :thup: so great for renovators. Don't know if that helps you but of course 'lead based' paints don't exist anymore either.
Mark

MG1918:
The lower (line drawing) pic in your post appears to show the preferred deployment of machine-guns; in ENFILADE, firing ALONG the line of the trench system, thus covering a large, critical area with useful fire.

The practice of "hosing back and forth" directly out from a trench or defensive strong-point is essentially a cinematic waste of ammo when your enemy is attacking in huge waves in extended line, ALONG your front.

Bruce you are absolutely right, particularly late 1915, when the German line really became consolidated. Interlocking lines of fire, area coverage of beaten zones made advance nigh on impossible. Attached two images, one from the German manual showing area coverage and again German MG teams would cover someone else's frontage thus ensuring larger beating zones and perfect camouflage. The other image is an original British postcard showing a re-enactment!!Attachment 86373Attachment 86374

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MG1918

Attachment 89878

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That is an interesting mount/block that 08 is sitting on. I haven't seen one like that before, I don't think.

Ed

Typical "trench mount". They were fairly common but not here in Canada. Most of the 08's we got from the war souvenir program were sled mounts or the 08/15 on bipods.
I've had a couple over the years.

Attachment 90607Attachment 90608Attachment 90609

Warren is right this particular pattern was reasonably common. The unit armourer variants less so. If anybody has an original I would certainly offer a high price, especially the variants.
Mark

Attachment 90772

my buddy, in usa has a class 3 licence hes got and mg08 on that, some others too

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Back in June 2015, 5 Maxims were found inside a concrete wall of an old mill that was being demolished. They were WW1 trophies that were put there by the NZ Police in the early 1930's due to fears of an uprising because of the Great Depression. Of the 5, an MG08/15 went to a local museum as a relic, one MG08 was so badly damaged that it was only good for parts, and the other three guns I have now restored to firing condition (1x Russian M1905 and 2x MG08's). This restoration has taken me 3 years of effort but with pleasing results. The M1905 and DWM MG08 #613 (1909) are pictured.

Attachment 93728Attachment 93729Attachment 93730Attachment 93731Attachment 93732

woodsy, have you ever watched the firearms history youtube channel "C&Rsenal"?

they are currently working their way through the firearms of ww1, with 76 episodes to date. averaging about an hour long each.
they go through the devolopment, adoption etc of the firearms, explain the action and show the disassembly.
they then fire them and review it in comparison to other ww1 firearms.

they are currently trying to find a MG08 that they can dissassemble and fire.

they have also stated that after the ww1 series the firearm they most want to do an episode on is the charlton.

they are well worth watching even if you can't help them out.

this is their current episode. (well it would be if i could get the link to work...)

https://youtu.be/GUoBWucly1s

I had never heard of them before but I have sent them an email.

awesome! :D

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Does anyone have an example of the hose connector please?

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Does anybody have any imagery of these types please? or indeed a real one for photographing?
Mark

These are the types I am looking for please, all patterns. Unit armourers, etc made all sorts so there is quite a large variety of patterns:

Attachment 104060Attachment 104058Attachment 104059

Attachment 105456
Nice view of the inner armoured plate. Looking for 3!!!!!!

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Nice view of the teams on the march with so great accessories visible

Hello

I think that we've been in contact in the past. I'm in Canada, and growing up, it almost seemed that every WW1 vet had dragged back an 08/15. Sled-mounted O8's sprinked every Legion lawn (most just plunked into a bed of cement) and de-activation consisted of just breaking off the feed arm on the feedblock. I hauled all I could find home and then just called in to have them registered with the powers-that-be and nobody really cared. Times and certainly changed and now I'm a member of dwindling numbers of collectors who can still own FA.

Regards
Brian Cox

Brian it is so sad that a lot of our Royal Legions are closing down, either side of the Atlantic, and the material so proudly owned by them is ending up in all sorts of places. I am a collector but also a custodian. I know you feel the same.

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OMG, can you imagine having to lug those sled mounted 08's for any distance? Good picture though--I didn't realize that was how they carried them. I always thought it was a two man job.

Usually moved in pieces. Tripod, sled, gun. ammo, sights, water, etc.

WWI MG08 Gun teams were either 5 or 6 troops. Like any team each had a specific role. There were many methods of carrying the sled, with or without the MG. Below some examples of carriage...either way yes what a hell of a job!!!! These are from inter-war manuals but the methods remain unchanged.
Images to follow as they appear not to be uploading.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../inter80-1.jpg

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Most of the images of moving the schlitten are inter-war on training exercises. The manuals from WWI and before 1939 depict the same drills. I guess no one bothered to film in WWI hurriedly moving kit whilst in action!!!
https://i.ibb.co/fNxdjGX/inter-50.jpg

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hi mg1918

any chance you have a pic close up of the pins that lock the sled front section when in position.?
I need to make up something that works and hopefully is close to original.

thx
Sean

I guess what I am seeing the pics is that I need more than I originally thought.
I need to fabricate or buy a repro or original (ha ha), of the locking bracket for the front of the sled as well I can see i am also missing the block on the bottom of the gun that marries with the sled to allow it to swing side to side. as well as the top semi circle sled bracket for the gun.

help even with good pics would be appreciated.

thx Sean

Ok so I have figured out the problem with the sled locking mechanism and solved that problem. I think the biggest issue I will have is finding / fabricating the bracket for the top of the sled to hold the gun.

Highburn I have just seen your posts.
You are fundamentally correct. The yoke and the traversing gear are the 2 bits reqired, and often the most common in absence!!
Over the past 2 months there have been on ebay repro ypoke straps for the sled. Complete traverse gear assemblies are hard to find. Please email me mark.finneran@hotmail.co.uk
Mark

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who says the Germans do not have a sense of humour!!!
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Many more photos on The Soldier's Burden/www.trenchfighter.com

When I was a kid back in the early 60's We used to go to the ball diamond in a small Ontario town where my cousins lived. There was an MG08 sled mount that sat behind home plate, I spent many an hour
hosing down the enemy trenches. I often wonder about it's fate, probably the scrap yard. In recent years I purchased, at a flea market in northern Ontario a wooden stocked MG08 on a bipod with a stencil on the water jacket that read CANADIAN WAR TROPHY 148th Battalion it had formerly resided in a now closed Legion, I moved it on to a friend but would now like to get it back I heard it said some years ago that the Germans claimed that the British fought for honor but the Canadians fought for souvenirs seems plausible when you see the mg's that still grace small town squares and cenotaphs

Actually the comment about Canadian War Trophies has some weight. Statistically Canada was by far the nation with the most ''bring backs''. Canada still has all the records of where the items went so MGs artillery pieces etc to schools, Legions etc is a great research project all on its own. Like UK, regrettably Royal Legions are suffering, even before COVID so historic pieces are indeed in danger.