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I've got a Winchester M1 Garand that has a black stripe on the stock - what does this signify?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ab828ff4-1.jpg
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Nice rifle! I sure don't know about the blackened butt area :confused:
That is a very nice rifle. I have an 03 Springfield with a painted black stripe about two inches wide around the wrist. I think it mat have designated for training purposes, but it's just my guess.
Looks like it used to have a "slip on" recoil pad on it.
That thought crossed my mind, too. I suppose it would clean up, if so, but I want to make sure it's not something else first!Quote:
Originally Posted by latigo 1
It appears to be all Winchester parts and I think it's the original greenish phosphate finish. Notice the dark area in the back of the receiver from the heat treating.
What do you guys think this is worth in today's market?
Here's some additional photos...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9f821526-1.jpg
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Very nice indeed!
With exposure to dirt, oil, & grease, we'd expect an unmessed-with WW2 stock to look pretty dark, like this one:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ockpaint-1.jpg
I think that your wood has already been cleaned (detergent &/or mineral spirits), as I can see in the recessed & end- grain areas where the oil could not be removed. It should be more apparent when you remove the action from the stock. As with antique furniture, removing the patina hurts the value.
A big factor in determining value will be the barrel. With the use of corrosive ammo in WW2, few original Winchester barrels survived unscathed. Let us know if the barrel is original with the WP logo, & condition of the bore. The barrel color is unlikely to match that of the receiver.
It's from the slip-on recoil boot for launching grenades .
Chris
Thanks to everyone who has responded. I appreciate it!
I looked at the barrel again and without complete disassembly, these are the only marks I could find...what do they mean?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...570fa661-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a9614836-1.jpg
The first picture is the Winchester proof mark. I'm not sure of the second picture other than the sideways "P" is probably a firing proof mark.
Bore is very nice. Bright and shiny with good rifling. I haven't done the bullet test, yet.
Edit: OK, looks like the muzzle is a 1! It's actually better than my HRA that was measured as a 1 at CMP.
Winchester...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...73e853d6-1.jpg
Winchester left, HRA right...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c86a3256-1.jpg
That is a sharp looking Winnie, right down to the uncut op. rod. Thanks for the pics!
uncut op rod?
Parts flying in "correct" formation? Observe the finish difference between the front sight and barrel in the photo from Post #11.
The op rods were altered to prevent cracking at the square corner...Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjxlr8
Yeah, the finish on the barrel looks better than the finish on surrounding parts. I suppose this must have had a barrel replacement at some point in it's life? The bore is too good to be original, isn't it? Did Winchester date the barrels? A friend told me that his SA Garand has a date on the barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...27187e20-1.jpg
Why does the gas cylinder lock appear to be smaller at the front than the gas cylinder. It's as if it was reduced in height at the top front. As if removing a hump from a later lock...They should be the same contour as the front of the gas cylinder..? Or very nearly?
Here's some better photos...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d670a5d9-1.jpg
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The gas cylinder lock looks right to me; all WW2 locks have the beveled front edge. A Winchester lock & front sight will usually have a punch mark.
We worry when all parts have the same finish, not when they vary. The gas cylinder is actually stainless steel painted black. I really don't know if Winchester supplied any spare barrels. Winchester barrels used in WW2 were not date stamped. But, the odds are against a Winchester replacement barrel getting installed on a Wincester receiver. Some rifles actually avoided combat, sparing them from corrosive ammo.
Yes, the lock is good. Maybe it was the shine or the angle before. I checked mine too and it's the same as this one. Minor variation between early and late, but basicly the same.
My concern was the variation between the barrel and front sight, not the gas cylinder bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Myers
I saw that, but I can't tell if the barrel is a replacement or not. It could be done by anyone after issue to current date. Not Winchester perhaps. There IS a great difference between the sight and the barrel finish. I just thought the gas cylinder lock had been altered.
"gas cylinder is actually stainless steel painted black"
FWIW, Winchester cylinders are unique, they were plated with Dulite and appear blue-ish when mint. It's a major identifier of WRA originality.
OK... I was told that one way to determine if the barrel is original or not is by whether the 'pad' where the gas port is is chromed or not. Apparently this area was later chromed during refurb or maybe this was a later feature of barrels or both?
Here is what I found which leads me to believe that this is the original barrel!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e2d42e98-1.jpg
My co-worker just loaned me a book called "collecting the Garand" by Harrison. I suppose you guys probably have this one, but this is the first I've seen it and it appears to be a great reference! I love the simple one page list of features.
I think this is an all original and complete WWII era Garand!! All of the pieces I inspected so far seem to be right, with the possible exception of the rear sight bar. I think this serial number is supposed to have square ends on the lock bar. ?
I managed to remove the rear handguard and it looks like it has the correct barrel number...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...013e7b74-1.jpg
Seems as though you have grown tired of it already.
NICE! Winchester M1 Garand WWII, 1943 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
I don't recall anyone saying it was the ORIGINAL barrel on this rifle. I believe it's the CORRECT barrel...but it's finish was the thing we questioned. It may have been replaced in the more recent past...not like that's ever happened before...but anyway, I guess we outlived our usefulness in this case.
Just remember for next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I'm not tired of it, but I'm not a Garand collector and just can't afford to keep it for myself!
My friend is thinning out his rather large collection of military rifles and i've offered to help by listing some on Gunbroker for him.
I enjoy learning about the details on these rifles and really appreciate the valuable information you guys have shared. I also thought some of you would enjoy seeing photos of rifles like this, which is really all I can contribute when it comes to these.
I purposely did NOT include any links to my auctions or even state that it was for sale. I intended this thread to be about the rifle and it's details, not as an advertisement. It would be nice if GUTS could remove the auction link as I don't think that it is allowed in these threads.
Thank you for the clarification on the original barrel vs. correct barrel, browningautorifle. I misunderstood.
Why do you say that "I guess we outlived our usefulness in this case?" I know that I am still very interested in the hsitory and details of this rifle and I suspect others are, too!
---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------
The finish on the barrel looks very nice. Almost no wear at all. In fact, in the grooves of the bore, it looks like you can still see the original tooling marks! I don't think this one has been fired very much. Someone mentioned before that it was unlikely that this rifle would have received a new Winchester replacement barrel. Would it have just been the "luck of the draw" or were Winchester barrels just not used as replacements? When did Winchester stop producing barrels for the M1 Garand?Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I suspect the barrel was put on sometime shortly before you got this one. The original was probably clapped out and changing them is done regularly. This is an original Winchester barrel, just not the one that came on this gun originally. Or so I suspect. That's why the wear doesn't match...so I suspect.