-
A couple of 99s
-
Those are really nice.
I am far from even knowledgeable about japanese rifles, but i think the long one is a type 38. The shorter one is definitely a type 99.
I am drooling over those mums and that aa sight. Very cool.
Not an easy gun to find and buy in canada.
-
The long rifle is a Type 38. Both look pretty nice, especially the Type 99. For a true assessment, we need to know if the numbers are matching on the bolt and receiver, if the screws are staked, etc.
I'm not one to guess on the series mark, they never look right to me. They were both made at Kokura Tokyo although it would have been called Koishikawa when the Type 38 was built. Both are missing their dust covers, not uncommon but unfortunate as replacing them is costly. The 99 is also missing it's monopod which it may never have had depending on series. If there is a dent in the wood just behind the front bayonet lug that runs perpendicular to the barrel, it had one. Monopods and dust covers run in excess of $100 each for originals, about $25 for reproductions. The 99 probably has a chrome bore so it should be nice, the 38 would not so condition pretty important with that one.
-
I was thinking that the long rifle might have been the type 99 long rifle. Numbers don't match on the bolt and receiver. I haven't been able to clean the bore yet but looks good but dirty. The short rifle Type 99 has matching numbers on the receiver and bolt. The bore looks real nice and should clean up to be shinny. I will post more photos later today.
-
The Type 38 may still be matching. They used a second number called an assembly number on many of the 38's, including those made at Kokura. If the three digit number on the bolt matches the 3 digit numbers on the other various parts, it is probably matching. The easiest way to tell a Type 38 from a Type 99 is the number of holes in the receiver, 2 vs 1. Also the characters beneath the holes say "Type 99", "Type 38" in Japanese.
-
-
-
Your 9th photo down is where you need to look for the dent in the wood. I can't tell for sure from the photo but it looks like a dent might be there. This is where the mono-pod rested when folded up to the stock. There are also sometimes rub marks at the location shown in photo 10.
A staked screw is one that has been peened where it touches the surrounding metal. It was usually done on two opposite sides and it is to prevent the screw from being easily removed. As one screw appears to be mis-shaped by a screwdriver, it is unlikely to still be staked.
You do have the monopod band but that doesn't mean it originally had one. They used up the bands that were in inventory before moving to the non-monopod bands.
If someone can identify the series, that should tell us whether it was supposed to have one or not or at least if it was a transitional piece which may or may not have had one.
I stopped guessing on the series because I can't tell one from the other easily and they rarely look like the images in the books. Neither of yours resembles anything that I can tell which just means it may be lightly or double struck.
The Type 38 should have a dust cover. Of that I'm pretty sure. The 99 may not have been issued with one, depends on the series.
-
Type 38 is Series 26 - dates to late 1930s. By that time Kokura wasn't using the assembly number as a means of matching parts.
Type 99 is Series 23 - dates to 1942ish. That rifle never had a monopod - I just looked at my Series One, and the marks made around the nosecap by the monopod are glaringly obvious.
EDIT: Added photos showing monopod marks...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ebb6ed31-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...31e32b8f-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...14c0304e-1.jpg
-
2 Attachment(s)
Here are some pictures of staked screws-- Salt Flat
Attachment 41063Attachment 41064
-
Thanks everyone for the help on these rifles. I don't have a lot of books for reference on these types of rifles. I am a collector just not these types. I kind of thought that with the Mums still intact that they could be something a little special. Now would anyone like to do an estimate as to their value. I have done some searching but can't seem to find any for sale with the Mum still visible. If you don't want to post your estimate to this thread feel free to PM me.
One other thing the numbers on the bolt of the T38 do not match the receiver and I cannot find any other assembly numbers on the exterior of this rifle. Where would other assembly numbers be or is this just a MM rifle?
-
Usually assembly numbers can be found at the barrel/action mating area, but on the bottom.
-
A rifle that late won't be matched by assembly number, it will be matched by the serial number on the receiver - you just have a mismatched rifle...
-
-
Your type 99 does appear to be a series 23 made made somewhere between July '43 to March 1944. Your serial number is an early 23 series and it should have had a monopod when made, although it does not show any signs of one. The monopod was dropped late in the 23 series. It also came with a dust cover.
