1941 Swedish Mauser needs a LOT of help

I was given a 1941 Swedish Mauser today that has been sitting in a wet environment for months. The action does not look too bad but the trigger does not work and I can't as of yet get it apart.

The wood is swelled and I cannot get the bands off. The front band is rusted solid onto the barrel. The end five inches of the barrel is badly rusted, worst I've ever seen. Very heavy scale. The bore was plugged but I popped right though it with a cleaning rod. Bore looks good with the exception of the last inch.

It is non matching so no big loss there. I currently have it sitting by some heat to dry out the stock.

I think all but the last 5 inches of the rifle are salvageable with a bit of work. Won't know the barrel condition until I can get the wood off. That last five inches looks real bad but if the rust isn't that deep under the scaling, maybe it can be saved. It will probably need counterbored at minimum.

Any suggestions on the rust on the barrel end. I scraped some of it off but it's the barrel band that has me stumped. Anything I can soak it in to get that broken loose?

Surprisingly, I was able to get the cleaning rod out. It is rusted most of the length which does not look good for the barrel but it was in the white vs being blued so some hope there.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...36542a46-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cba308ab-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dc36493e-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e5ceb701-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...98399fa1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7521dc12-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1ed7dcbf-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e35a3379-1.jpg

I've always wanted a real challenge, I think I've gotten one with this. Worst case, I assume the barrel could be replaced?

---------- Post added at 04:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

As of now, I have been able to get the bolt out a couple of screws and the cleaning rod out. Most of the rest is still locked up. I have sprayed it with Rem Oil and have it sitting by the heater. The barrel band releases do move and the rear band is loose, it simply will not come off due to the swelled wood. I can see through the crack in the handguard/stock and see some rust in there but mostly blue, some hope. The plug in the barrel end is gone, it was old plaster which had collapsed onto the rifle and is what kept the barrel end wet. Stock is very wet.

There was a 303 with it and it is in pretty decent shape. I have been able to get that nearly all disassembled, not a lot of rust, nothing heavy anyway. Stock is not soaked but is wet and had some mold inside.

The 303 was in the case, the Swede was out on it's own. The interior of the case is soaked too so not an incredible amount of help there. It's a 1942 Long Branch, it's been refurbed and the serial number ground and replaced on the stock band.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...74b362ef-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...34322f1c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...81c75d5b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3cd567ed-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2daaca82-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2daaca82-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a7ab9239-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ff139941-1.jpg

303 is sitting by the heat as well. Mold inside the stock, I should probably go spray that with something but not sure what at this point. The finish on the rifle wasn't bad but it now has black rust staining so I may redo it. I'll see what it looks like once dried. May put some lemon juice on it to see if that removes the black. Looks like Walnut, nicer than the British stocks I have.

For the rust I usually boil the part in boiling distilled water, around 20-30 mins but the barrel may need longer, then remove the broken down rust (now black oxide) with a scouring pad, its basic bluing or browning, although on the original bluing or browning process the rusting was controlled !!!

I think the Sweede will be a true reserection fro the dead. What a great project on both with none of the what ifs of messing with a sound rifle for fear of devalueing.
I am going to bookmark this thread. Can't wait to see the results!

For rust - Kroil. I took some real rust scale out of a barrel. Stuffed it with Kroil soaked patches for about 10 days (longer than originally intended...) and then ran a bronze brush soaked w/ Kroil with a drill. Worked great.

You, OTH, have a GOOD bit more rust than I did. I would try Kroil first. But, assuming you are going to have to reblue anyway, I would look at a product called Evapo-Rust. I have used it to remove rust from dies and works great. I soaked them for about 3 days - again, longer than originally intended... Life can do that sometimes! Be advised, bluing IS a form or rust, and Evapo-Rust WILL remove bluing!

I would also get the wood as far away from heat as possible! My fear is that it will dry way too quickly and the wood will crack/split - and probably be unsalvagable. I would instead put it in a large bag with desicant, or dry out in the sun. Anything that will dry it slowly - the slower the better IMO. Another option would be to dust the stock with corn starch. Not sure where this came from, but popped into my mind right before I posted...

For the mold - I would wipe with a bleach solution. Then rinse in warm water. Towel dry. Then dry out as above. The shape those stocks are in, prob can't much more damage than already done. I have used bleach after stripping before to even out the wood color, or lack there-of.

Me - I would prob just replace the barrel bands. Sadly, may end up only being able to salvage the action for a sporter. Guess you might be able to Frank it and find a replacement barrel.

Best of luck and pls post pics/updates. I am VERY curious how this turns out - for both rifles.

The Enfield is almost completely stripped. I have to locate my large screwdriver to get the butt stock off of it but other than that it's clear. It really isn't in bad shape.

The Swede I just now got the two barrel bands off. I have one screw, the rear one, that I just can't get to break loose so the action is still in the stock. There is some rust in the barrel channel. Not real sure about this barrel, even with cutting it short. The rust on the end of the barrel may have killed it.

I have them sitting near a small heater. They aren't up against it, probably as warm as sitting in the sun. The Enfield doesn't have much water in it, the Swede does, the buttstock is about 3/8's of an inch bigger than the butt plate right now.

I've sprayed the screw with WD-40, see if that and the stock drying a bit will loosen it up. I can't get the floor plate off of it either. The release catch works but the plate won't move.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3db55f97-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bfa5da81-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9e4d47db-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9e4d47db-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b9dcaf59-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d454ac63-1.jpg

The Enfield has the New Zealand service mark on the butt stock but no such mark on the metal that I can find. Barrel is stamped 42 and has the Long Branch symbol. It's a 15L serial number, the area directly above the serial number has been filed flat and a very large 2893 has been stamped into it, rack number perhaps? It has a Sarco import stamp on the receiver. Directly behind the bolt on the top of the stock is what appears to be a DP?, can't make out the third letter if is is one, the P could be an A. There is an "N" on the side of the stock and a few numbers here and there. All faint, the stock was refurbished.

Go here:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ight=Argentino

and read the section on making and using an electrolytic bath. The bright red rust looks horrible, but is usually of more recent origin and easier to remove. You can dunk the whole barrel in an alkaline electrolytic bath, but as soon as the current is switched, remove the barrel and dry it out.

If you take the trouble to read the whole series and apply the methods described, you will be able to make your present wrecks look more like usable rifles again. What you cannot do is replace rifing that has rusted away. So unless you want to shorten the M41 Swede into a "tanker", the only answer is going to be counterboring, or...

... there is an alternative to counterboring. I know someone who had a muzzleloader with a ruined muzzle. He cut off the dud end, turned down the fresh end to make a shoulder, and fitted a piece of another barrel with a much larger bore over the end, turned down to the original barrel profile and with the foresight fitted to the new stub. Sounds brutal, yes? But some modern small-bore target rifles are in effect the same, with a fairly short rifled section inside a tube that is much longer, to provide an adequate sight radius.

---------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 AM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oscarflytyer

I would also get the wood as far away from heat as possible! My fear is that it will dry way too quickly and the wood will crack/split - and probably be unsalvagable. I would instead put it in a large bag with desicant, or dry out in the sun. Anything that will dry it slowly - the slower the better IMO.

---

Hear, hear, but not in the sun please!

Patrick,

I don't think the interior of the barrel is going to be a major problem. It's the depth of the exterior rust I'm concerned about right now. I looked at the bore again late last night and the rust only goes in about an 8th inch or so, counterboring would probably solve that problem easily. As the tip is going to have to be recrowned, I could possibly just shorten the barrel that much to eliminate the rust. The "plug" seems to have kept the moisture out of the inside of the barrel.

great news on the barrel. The kroil method I used might even save the last 1/8". Good luck

Day two of the project. The Swede is still stuck in it's stock. I just can't get the tang screw out. The floorplate is still locked into place. I did get the butt plate off today. The butt is really swelled. The metal is etched on the butt plate. The previous owner said he put bleach on them to get rid of mold. I'm wondering if that caused it or if it was the plaster mess it was in. The stock is starting to feel drier, not so sure if it will be salvageable at this point but it should be.

The good news is the Enfield is completely stripped and cleaned. I was able to get the unsightly stains out of the fore stocks and they are now drying again. The butt stock I left alone, hopefully I'll get a good color match when I start oiling it. No part needs to be replaced on this. The stock bands would look nicer if replaced but they are functional and for now I think I'll let them be. Only drawback is it is missing both of it's sling swivels. The screws are here, just not the swivels. The barrel is a two groove and either needs further cleaning or it has some minor pitting. All I've done with it so far it run a brush through it a couple of times and sprayed oil in it.

Tomorrow I'll try to find some of those rust eating products. The Kroil looks to be out of my reach locally. My son in law recommended something similar I can get so I'll try that out. I'd like to get it out of the stock so I can get at that rust and get the stock dried out.

Going to be heading out to find some rust products shortly. Spent some time researching on the internet and figure I'm going to go on the cheap first and see if that works. Distilled white vinegar seems to get outstanding reviews. Won't help with that locked up screw so I need to find something for that. In preparation for the vinegar I chipped off the heavier scale down a more reasonable depth with a scraper blade on an occilating saw. Worked fairly well. Of all the bad luck, the only part of the barrel that still has original metal and finish is exactly where the import stamp is. Go figure. It actually extends about two inches up into the heavy rust everywhere else.

Not sure if the vinegar will remove the bluing too but at this point, doesn't matter. If it takes some extra bluing off above the rust, I'm not going to worry about it, there isn't any blueing under the rust, that's for sure.

I picked up an advance formula Liquid Wrench and sprayed it on the screw and receiver openings. Started dissolving the rust almost immediately but has not as of yet released the screw. Nor has it released the floor plate.

The small parts such as the barrel bands, sling swivels and the rusted bolt parts were put in a vinegar bath. First thing it removed was the bluing so that question answered rather quickly. Took less than an hour to do that. Remaining rust is also coming off. I scrub it with a wire brush periodically although from what I researched, I could just let them sit in there and have it dissolved off all on its own. It does appear to be removing all the rust so in areas where you can't get at, it should be good for doing that. The barrel bands could take days.

The Swede news went from bad to worse. After breaking two screwdrivers and stripping the screw head, I decided that I was going to need a new screw anyway so I drilled it out.

The trigger assembly is all froze up and is a Timney, not sure but I don't think these are original to the rifle. The action and barrel under the stock do not look terrible, not nearly as bad as the last 5 inches.

The stock however is all dry rotted and I couldn't tell this until now. The end just essentially fell off. So the project to return this to "original" status just got a lot more difficult.

My options are to cut the stock down, cut it back to the band and add a new end or get a new one. I guess all that depends on whether I can save the action and barrel first.

Not sure why the trigger assembly is froze up, probably rust but I can't see much of it inside, can't see inside it much however. I'll try to get it off the action and apart to clean.

As of now, I have most of the scale off the barrel. The barrel bands are soaking in vinegar, the bolt is pretty well cleaned up except for one tough spot. Here are a few shots of the barrel and action and the dry rotted stock end. It looks like the dry rot may extend a bit beyond the barrel band area. I may end up putting it in that old carbine stock that I have. It was cut down also but it looks nicer than this one anyway.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5b45aa75-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...865ef2ea-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...08a433d2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...840dc4bd-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b8ffaa88-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5a3ceaa3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2d70cd25-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43b56af7-1.jpg

I'm exhausted and demoralized. I started this project about 8 this morning and 11 hours later I don't know if it can be saved. I wire wheeled the barrel and there is some serious pitting on it where the stock was. I don't think it is too deep but I'm half afraid if and when I soak it in rust remover be in the vinegar bath or something else that the pitting will be too deep.

The vinegar really does work. It removed most of the rust on the small parts and where there was no rust, the metal is smooth and where there was rust, it has an etched look as it dissolved all of it. The really heavy stuff takes a lot of time but a gallon only cost $1.89 and I used maybe two cups of it. It will take it to the white, no bluing survives.

Tomorrow I'll get the Enfield back together and take some after photos. That's the big positive with these two. I think it cleaned up pretty nice and while a few of the small parts look rough, all are functional.

Gave the barrel the vinegar soak today. Five hours in the vinegar a scrubbing and another hour and another scrubbing. Then a hot water bath with dish soap, dried off and then sprayed liberally with Liquid Wrench. I hope the photos are good enough to judge condition. I took them in order so there are four or five per side with a full length to show where on the barrel the other photos are taken. The dark brown areas still contain rust. Overall, I don't see anything extremely deep but I have no idea how deep is too deep for safe function.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2e66a58b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0559a1af-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...359a1bfb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...97dc0c91-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f8e22895-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8709c04c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f7df765a-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...02e5a861-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...282ecc22-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c57db6e3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...947758e0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4d475293-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1394c495-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c1a38e5c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03392cb3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c2050227-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...054b4efa-1.jpg

Here are my best attempts to take photos of the bore, I have yet to figure out how to do this so they aren't the best. The barrel has already been counterbored about an 8th inch. The rifling is good almost right up to that counterbore with the exception of a couple of spots where it is pitted another 8th inch or so.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b4e8ef74-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...41673961-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8ca87c1a-1.jpg

And finally, the worst areas on the receiver:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0ddfcb30-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d4945b68-1.jpg

So what do you think, is it functional? Safe? The Timney trigger I was able to get off and get working again. The previous owner had it set at a hair trigger and it was frozen in place on top of that. Is working fine now and I set it to a more normal setting.

You're a brave lad for tackling this one!

I am in severe doubt as to whether that barrel will ever be usable (I can't judge the depth of the pits from here) but if you want it to at least look respectable, then a complete electrolytic derusting is the only way to get all "red" rust out of the tiny corners where no brush will reach, or at least converted to "black" rust, which is chemically the same as bluing (sorry, I keep on confusing ferrous and ferric oxide, and can't be bothered to dig out a chemistry book right now) followed by a parkerizing process as described here

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....762#post256762

then fill with "liquid metal" (i.e. metal-loaded epoxy), smooth and paint with Suncorite or something similar.

At least it would look better. But shooting????

Thanks Patrick for your advice. I gave it a second vinegar treatment today and nearly all the rust is off of it now. I think for now I'll oil it up to stabilize it for a bit while I can think on what to do with it.

I'm not sure I want to make it look "nice" if it isn't functional. It isn't a rare piece and even if I wouldn't shoot it, someone else down the road might make the attempt.

I'll see if I can find someone locally that can evaluate it. It's a shame because the interior is nearly perfect with the exception of the last half inch.

I suppose I could make it into one of those tanker Mauser rifles, short barrel, etc. The stock is shot anyway forward of the band. What's the legal barrel length? 16"?

If I cut it off at 16 1/4 inch just to be safe, the barrel would end about an inch outside of the upper hand guard. Nearly all the barrel would be covered. There is also only about 4 or 5 inches of the smaller diameter barrel left and the pitting on that section is not as severe. Shorter barrel would reduce the pressure a bit as well.

I'm not doing anything now, just a thought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Swed...item33808efd12
Not much time left. Is this the correct wood?

That stock was sporterized. The stock I have is fine with the exception of the first six inches. It needs a serious cleaning and probably needs to dry out more and then sanded down so it fits the butt plate again. I don't think it will shrink back that much. I also have a carbine stock that was sporterized that would fit it. This is not a 96, it's a 38 short rifle.

I don't see where the pitting is severe enough to make it unshootable myself. I have a Mauser 98k thats rusted like that over 90% of the exterior and I've been shooting it for years with Turk ammo and it has'nt exploded yet. I did pretty much the same thing you did with the vinegar to remove the rust and counterbored the muzzle bout a quarter inch then primed and painted it without attempting to fill the pits. I replaced the rotten original stock with a German made Isreali reworked stock. Accuracy does'nt seem to suffer from the pitting that I can see. Turning it into a tanker would make for a handy little carbine but I don't think shortening the barrel will reduce pressures any, just velocity. But I could be wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vintage hunter

it has'nt exploded yet

---

If it's Aragorn's face behind the breech and Aragorn's hands on the stock, then it is his risk and should be his decision and responsibility. No-one is going to guarantee that it is safe.

Over here, the correct thing to do would be to have it proof-tested. But as has been noted by others, proof testing can also be viewed as a formal way of stating "it hasn't exploded - yet!"

I noticed the "yet". I understand the risks involved. I do have a lead sled I could fire it from but that "yet" is the problem. I could fire 20 rounds through it with no problems but the 21st could be the one that is too much.

I was talking with a friend who is an engineer and designs and fabricates metal projects. He said that the barrels were most likely built over strength and that when it was manufactured, it was probably also built "heavy" due to the capabilities of the manufacturing processes of the day. Today we have fluted barrels and all sorts of other things done to them to make them lighter.

So what exactly is the risk with something like this? Dove tails and scope mounts are drilled in deeper than this pitting, but obviously they aren't as extensive.

My situation is I do not ever need to fire this rifle. Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to nor does is set aside someone in the future firing it. I won't be around forever and the next person to get this may shoot it, especially if I would go the filling/polishing/painting route.

Cutting the barrel isn't going to reduce pressures at the chamber, but the chamber isn't pitted deeply at all, nor is the thick section of the barrel. I'm not worried about that section. It's the stepped down section of the barrel where my concern lies and of that, the end 6 inches the most. But as I mentioned, I'd rather restore the full rifle rather than cut it down, that's more of a last resort to get some function out of it. The deepest pitting on the entire barrel is right at the muzzle and even there, with a counterbore on the inside, the thickness of the metal is at least 1/8th inch. The Swede barrel is much heavier than a Berthier carbine barrel in both weight and thickness.

Decisions, decisions.

You ain't got got killed in a wreck while driving to work YET either have you? What you going to do? Sit home or continue driving to work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I won't be around forever and the next person to get this may shoot it, especially if I would go the filling/polishing/painting route.

---

That is a very good argument, which I had overlooked. I hereby withdraw the filling suggestion in the interests of safety.

As to pressure: Surely the peak pressure is long past when the muzzle is reached? That is why Mauser could design a stepped barrel to reduce weight without impairing safety. And if you look at shotgun muzzles, they seem paper-thin to me. But shotguns typically use a fast powder that peaks very early along the barrel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Dove tails and scope mounts are drilled in deeper than this pitting, but obviously they aren't as extensive.

---

That is indeed the tricky aspect to evaluate. It's still your call, I'm afraid.

Sarco has what appear to be new carbine barrels if that would help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Sarco has what appear to be new carbine barrels if that would help.

---

Checked their site, can find a listing for them but not that they have them in stock or at what price. But again, it would have to be pretty reasonable to be worth the effort. If I have to spend so much that I could buy a "new" complete one, it sort of defeats the purpose.

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 PM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

As to pressure: Surely the peak pressure is long past when the muzzle is reached? That is why Mauser could design a stepped barrel to reduce weight without impairing safety. And if you look at shotgun muzzles, they seem paper-thin to me. But shotguns typically use a fast powder that peaks very early along the barrel.

---

That's how I see it. As the bullet travels along the barrel the space gets larger and the energy (pressure) is transferred to the momentum of the bullet. Highest pressure would be at the instant of ignition where a dead weight, the bullet, is forced down the path of least resistance. Not all the powder burns at the same time so pressure would continue but I doubt it would rise as the bullet travels down the barrel.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/swedmsrbarrelcarbinem94.aspx $74.95

Thanks for the link. That barrel would be too short to replace the one that I have. It is about an inch and a half longer than what I would have if I cut the end off this one.

I made a discovery this evening, the rifle was not counter bored, it has a screw on muzzle cover on it. Now getting that off will be problematic. I bet the threads and barrel under it are pristine:)

Gun show this weekend. I think I'm going to look for a barrel. Any Swede barrel fit? I could get one of those SARCO barrels if it will fit the receiver and nothing shows up at the show.

I got the nose cap off. And believe it or not, the barrel threads are pristine under it. I never thought I'd get it off in the first place.

Productive day at the gun show today. I spoke to three individuals concerning the pitting on the barrel and all said it wasn't a problem. That a Swede barrel would have to be in a lot worse shape than that for it to be a problem. I'm still not going to fire it other than remotely to test it however for my own peace of mind.

Besides that, I was able to acquire a stock for an M96 with all the metal with the exception of the butt plate which I did not need for $30. Turns out the stock I have is a cut down M96 stock as it was a common practice to recycle them on the M38's. So the project will continue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

So the project will continue.

---

Very glad to hear that. Keep us posted.

Took some time this evening to cut the stock down and fit the end cap. Took a few photos of the "new" stock alongside the old:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...369f3b45-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d505fec0-1.jpg

And a close up of the barrel end. I have not gotten around to cleaning the light surface rust off of it. This has no pitting and the inside of the muzzle cap has none either, even through the threads.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dea334d2-1.jpg

And after fitting, I figured I better check to see if everything else fit so I put it back together. I don't plan on doing anything more with the barrel until I can test fire it. Not intending to replace the cleaning rod until then either. No sense tying up a lot of cash if it isn't going to work.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8312a899-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...25a16b91-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...26a1dac0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3f7995c1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7318c836-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4ede2562-1.jpg

I had an engineer who works with metal examine the barrel and he gave it an all clear. I took it to two gun shops yesterday and had four different fellows examine it and pronounce it as safe as any barrel can be but all four of them also said it would not shoot accurately and needs to be re-crowned or counter bored. Two estimates were both $60. One fellow lamented what a shame it was (which I agree) and one of the four suggested cutting the barrel down as its collector value is gone.

Looks great. Think you might be suprised how much better it will look blued.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

but all four of them also said it would not shoot accurately and needs to be re-crowned or counter bored. Two estimates were both $60.

---

I would call that a rip-off. Get a crown cutter and do it yourself. You obviously have the ability and persistence. When you are finished, you will be even more disgusted at the $60 quote for a couple of minutes work, and will have a tool that you can use for other rifles.

Recrowning is probably the most cost-effective (if you have a cutter) and rapid improvement that you can make to any milsurp.

Turning something like this

Attachment 41651

into something like this

Attachment 41650

will give you great satisfaction.

OK,OK... I can see that the end mill was chattering. It just shows what impatience leads to. I prefer to think of the result as decorative, like "jewelling" a bolt. But the wallhanger is now a shooter!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...isc/pencil.png

Patrick,

I look at it this way, this rifle is the grand test bed of all experiments for me. Not too much else I can do to it that would make it any worse. I couldn't see shelling out $60 for a barrel in this condition.

I also remembered I have an M96 in my safe that has one of those long flash suppressors on it. I figured if it was sized correctly and I had a drill bit the right size, I could counter bore it without much difficulty. It was sized correctly and I had a bit the right size so I counter bored it about a quarter inch this morning and it only took about two minutes. Looks great with solid lands and grooves now but only shooting it is going to tell me if I did it right. If I didn't, I can use a larger diameter bit and go a bit deeper. The crown itself is still a bit rough but I think this is the way they were made. You think I should round it off some too or being counter bored is this not going to affect it? There remains one area in the counter bored section that is still slight pitted making it out of round.

The gun shop fellows told me the pitting at the end of the barrel was so bad it might be key-holing at 50 yards. I figured as much, there were a couple of good chunks missing after I got the muzzle cap off.

I put the flash suppressor on and the sight hood off the M96 and with the other new barrel bands I may just try cold bluing it and see how it looks. A new cleaning rod will work wonders too I'm sure. I'm still going to wait until I shoot it successfully off a lead sled before going much further.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c35deaa7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ef5f6769-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...080917d2-1.jpg

I cut the old stock down today. Once I got if off the barrel and it dried out, it warped really bad at the end. Not counting the dry rot, it isn't of much worth. It's going to be the test bed for the lead sled and then it's getting put in long term storage. It smells bad, like mold and the dark staining which probably is mold goes all the way through it.

That little project is proving to be quite the ispiration and might have me looking at some basket cases in a diffrent light.

I suggest that you get some Oxalic acid (non-toxic), you buy it in crystal form from a chemist. mix it up to a watery, milky consistance and paint it onto the rust stains on the wood work. It acts like a wood bleach and washes the iron rust stains out of the wood. I have just resurrected a Mauser with the same discolouration probs as yours. One stubborn stain took several goes, but in the end I have a really clean, unmarked stock.

Good luck with the rest

Col

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

You think I should round it off some too or being counter bored is this not going to affect it? There remains one area in the counter bored section that is still slight pitted making it out of round.

---

I admire your determination! Yes, I think you should try to even up the crown. That is the operation for which I used an end mill in the photo in my last post, with a stub to center it, and turned by hand* - since I could not get the BPCR barrel into the lathe!

The counterboring will make it a secondary effect, but the old crown has a burnt-out section at about 1 o'clock in your photo, and this will cause a slight kick in the opposited direction when the bullet leaves the muzzzle. This effect would have been much, much worse without the counterboring.

The photo does not appear to be square on to the bore line, so I cannot judge it, but it is very important that the counterbore is symmetrical, i.e. precisely along the bore axis. Any asymmetrical gas flow past the bullet in the counterbore channel will cause the bullet to veer off line.

Get it firmly tied down to the sled, and let us know how it performs!

*In case you have not yet tried it, hand milling is very slow !!
Mill in headstock. Headstock rotating at the slowest backgear speed.
Stub in mill with brass sleeve over it to fit bore.
Barrel slipped over sleeved stub and lined up with a travelling steady.
Barrel rotated by hand while pushing it up to the mill. Hence the chattering effect.

Yea, verily, dead slow. But it works.

The spot at 1 o'clock is the one I mentioned. It isn't especially deep anymore but it is still there. A slightly larger bit would remove it but I have no way to guide it at this point. The cut is straight as the bit was held in place by the suppressor. I can't tell if it is exactly centered but it is close and as long as the bore is centered on the barrel threading it should be.

How immediate would any effect of the crown have on the bullet travel? Is there any risk of the bullet striking the sides of the flash suppressor? I can't imagine the bullet being able to veer off course that quickly but thought I'd ask. I plan to shoot it first without and then shoot it with to see if there are any effects on accuracy. I would think the flash suppressor would help minimize any irregularities in the crown by extending the pressure length a bit. But ballistics isn't one of my strong points.

Not sure when I'll get it to the range. It will have to be a quiet day up there. No way I'm going to try to shut down the range so I can go back and yank on a string while everyone's watching. The old stuff I usually take up there draws enough attention without me doing that. I cleared out the range one other day by simply telling them that particular rifle was close to 100 years old. I had half a dozen guys standing about 20 feet from me waiting to see if the 1911 Swiss was going to blow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

How immediate would any effect of the crown have on the bullet travel?

---

Impossible to calculate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Is there any risk of the bullet striking the sides of the flash suppressor? I can't imagine the bullet being able to veer off course that quickly

---

Neither can I.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I would think the flash suppressor would help minimize any irregularities in the crown by extending the pressure length a bit.

---

Sounds plausible. All these effects are secondary and incalculable. You are stuck with "try it and see". Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I cleared out the range one other day by simply telling them that particular rifle was close to 100 years old.

---

Sounds as if I could bring my stuff to your range and clear it out for a week. 100 years - that's a modern rifle!

Hi, What a great project!. In my opinion the only way to remove all that external rust properly is to have it shotblasted . You will never remove it totally by chemical methods and it will take ages and be messy. When all the rust is off you will better be able to evaluate what you have.You will also be able to see every little crack or pit which is vital for re -finishing or decision making.(as to safety)You will need to find a shot blaster who can advise you on the many different processes but I fancy the Mauser will need an initial heavy grit, that rust looks DEEP. Depending on your local laws you may have to stay with the gun while it is being done. .Good Luck,i envy you!

Wow,i have just seen the results of your rust removal! Very impressive ! I wouldn`t have believed it possible to get that amount of rust off with chemicals.Well done!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smellysniper

Wow,i have just seen the results of your rust removal! Very impressive ! I wouldn`t have believed it possible to get that amount of rust off with chemicals.Well done!

---

It was basically somewhere between 10 and 12 hours in distilled white vinegar with a few wire brushings in between. I couldn't believe it either but it dissolved almost all the rust. There were a few patches of "black" rust that it didn't remove that I had to dig out by hand.

I tried cold bluing it to stabilize it at this point and to see what it looks like. I'm not especially happy with it.

I am getting anxious to test fire it. Warmer weather next week so maybe.......

The old stock is cut down and ready to be remounted. That was/is a real mess. The stock warped, cracked and remains discolored. I guess that's what happens when it is soaked and swelled like a sponge It was 3/8's wider than the butt plate. Not sure what I'll do with it after the test. Shortened as it is, it would have some use I suppose. I figure I'll wrap the barrel in paper. If there is a pin hole in it it will burn the paper. I have to dig out my string too. I have some good stuff I use for marking foundations.

I couldn't stand it any longer and placed orders for the missing accessories. Bayonet arrived today. Sling, flash suppressor, sight hood and cleaning rod on their way. Hopefully it won't blow up or I'll be listing a few Swede accessories on ebay soon.

Today was the day. Last night I swapped out the new stock for the old original one. This morning I wrapped the barrel with paper, sewed up a bag for some lead for the sled, packed it all up and went to the range. Took the Swede, the Enfield and my Type 38 Carcano.

Beautiful day so I figured I'd have trouble shooting it. Today was "Fish Rodeo" day and the lot was packed. But NO ONE was on any of the ranges. I figured that would change pretty quick but I got everything set up with an oversized piece of cardboard behind the target. I set up the lead sled, put the rifle in, strapped it down, aimed it, loaded it, aimed it again and went about 15 feet behind it and a rifle rack and pulled the string. Boom, no flying shards of metal or wood, everything looked good. Checked the paper, no holes, no burns, tore it off, checked to see if it hit the paper, it did without keyholing. Loaded and fired a second time with the string but must have yanked that one as it was way off the paper. Shot 3 more with my finger standing behind it, all were on the paper. Casings looked good, rifle looked good, bore looked good, exterior looked like crap but no different than it did before I started. I quickly swapped rifles with the Enfield, (I did tear it apart again and go over it thoroughly), strapped it in, loaded it and attached the string. Fired nicely with no issues with the casing or the rifle.

I then swapped out the stock, putting the good one on and fired a 5 shot group off the sled while aiming. The first four shots were Ok, the 5th I knew I screwed up as I pulled the trigger but there was no stopping at that point. Target was at 50 yard and is pretty typical for my open sight shooting.

So for reference, it looked like this:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e35a3379-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cba308ab-1.jpg

And it now shoots like this, with my poor eyesight anyway (It shoots a lot better than the Carcano does):

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a9a07511-1.jpg

Now that I know it is functional, I'm debating what to do with the barrel pitting. I'm thinking I'd like to fill it and smooth it, would prefer not to paint it but if that's what I need to do I guess I will. I'm going to try to find some filler that dries black or can be color matched. Not sure if there is anything out there or not.

Great results. I have seen a product at our local bearing supplier, some tupe of liquid metal (similar to JB Weld) but supposed to be industrial grade. This might be the ticket if it can be tinted to match.

Better learn to swear in Swedish to help the metal part of the project along.......German works too! Best wishes and lots of patience on this project. For drying out old (antique) carvings of wood I have used fine dried silica sand and time as one does for presrving/drying plant material....it's slow but not intrusive or damaging

What an uplifting accomplishment for any of us who have headed down the path of resurrecting an old milsurp! Congratulations on "sticking with it" and not giving up on the old war horse.

Update, there has been some progress this weekend. I have been shopping around for something to fill the pitting with and settled on something I can get locally, JB Weld. I opted to get the type that cures less fast but holds up better under higher temps. So I had a lot of impatient waiting while it cured. Put the first coat on Thursday night and sanded it Friday evening. Put a second coat on some of the low spots after the sanding Friday and sanded it a second time this evening. Decided to try Krylon paint in a flat black and it looks pretty good after one coat. I only did the pitting where it can be seen on the barrel. I did not fill the pitting on the barrel under the wood or on the receiver.

With the paint, I can see I missed a few areas that could be smoothed a bit better so I have to decide if I want to sand it and coat it again. I'm not seeking perfection so I may leave it. I have no idea how durable this paint is going to be either, it is a primer and top coat in one and aside from Dura Coat seems to be what the majority recommended as a second choice. Pricing the Dura Coat, it wasn't too hard a decision for me to go with the Krylon. $70 vs $4 was pretty easy. I can repaint it a lot of times with that one can and it's probably not going to be used other than on the range where it isn't likely to get banged around. If this paint proves to be durable, I may fill the pits on the receiver and paint it although at this point, it has most of it's bluing and I don't want to alter that.

My tang screw arrived yesterday. Still waiting on the new cleaning rod and sling.

It has been an interesting project and while I could not possibly make any money on a restoration of this kind due to the sheer numbers of hours I have in it, it was fun and I'd be willing to do it again sometime.

PPP! (please post photos)!
Would love to see the process. Excited to see how she turnd out.

I forgot to take photos of the filling process so I'm already beyond that. What I can say about it is that I was surprised that there wasn't more fill when I was finished. I layered it on pretty heavy and then sanded it off by pinning the barrel and pulling the sandpaper up and down while it was wrapped around the barrel. I stopped sanding when I hit metal and I hit metal just about everywhere except for two spots. It may have just been a peak or two of metal but it was not hard to get it to the original dimension.

The Krylon paint seems to be pretty durable as I was able to put the metal fittings back on it without tearing or scratching it.

I wasn't going to post final photos until the cleaning rod and sling arrived but I guess there's no real need to wait until then and I'm home sick today.

I'll post a couple of the before's for comparison:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7ab194a3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...30b258a8-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...db64e253-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6910397d-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e274a6d5-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...61c6d094-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4959bdf3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6a10526a-1.jpg

I am leaving the butt plate in the white for now. I kind of like it that way but if rust becomes an issue I'll cold blue it. I'm very pleased with how it came out and that it remains functional with minimal swapping out of parts. The original stock was not numbered to this rifle, it was a cut down 96 stock as is the replacement. I've read this is common with the 36's so not unusual. The barrel band and the bayonet lug no longer match, everything else remains original with the exception of the band springs which are not numbered. Not that it is or ever will be a collector piece. It fills a niche in my collection.

I don't know that I'll ever shoot it again, I'd like to get a better group than I shot with it the first time but it's not critical, I'm confident that it is functional and is as safe as any of these old rifles can be.

It is missing the little metal trajectory plate so I'll have to keep my eyes open for one of them but I'm in no rush.

I do have the bayonet for it and it fits fine. It's the interesting one I mentioned on the edge weapons forum. Should have taken pictures of it on the rifle when I had it out but too late now. I know there's some discussion on where these flash suppressors come from but the bayonets fit over them perfectly. The bayonet did not fit over the plain cover and is extremely loose if put on over the threads alone. A lot of the Swedes I see for sale here in the states have them but that doesn't mean they were not marketed here in the US. The one I have installed on this I took off of my 96. I have a second one on order to replace that one.

Congratulations on a wonderful job, well done, and the most extreme "before and after" contrast that I have ever seen!

I do not think spectacular is to strong a word to describe this reserection from the dead. Well done!
P.S. Thanks for the pictures.

Thanks for the compliments guys, it means a lot.

Now I have to find something else to fix. Flea Market season has officially started but I found nothing this weekend.