According to Wikipedia there are approximately 132,000 sniper versions of the 98k. Does anyone know how to identify the sniper version from the regular version? There has to be some type of marking or serial number to identify the sniper version.
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According to Wikipedia there are approximately 132,000 sniper versions of the 98k. Does anyone know how to identify the sniper version from the regular version? There has to be some type of marking or serial number to identify the sniper version.
Rule #1 - never trust Wikipedia. I have an account and make edits; sometimes they stay the way I left them, sometimes people change them.
Rule #2 - there are few guaranteed statements about Mausers. For instance, there were variants with a small section of rail on the side of the backsight block for a tiny low power telescope. Is this a sniper rifle?
I am too tired and lazy to look through all the books at the moment, but if I remember correctly, there was no such thing as a single standardized Wehrmacht sniper rifle. The problem is illustrated by an announcement from February 1943:
"...grenadiers, riflemen... will be equipped with the K98k-ZF41 as well as with the K98k with commercial telescope sight and corresponding mountings..."
(from "The Backbone of the Wehrmacht", p.201)
The section that I have set in italics means that, lacking documention of the marking or number ranges of "official" sniper rifles, the field is wide open for anyone to acquire a K98k and a ZF41 or civilian scope with mountings of the right vintage, put them together and call the result a sniper rifle.
And I suspect that is exactly what has happened and still is happening. To distinguish an "original" from a piece that has been assembled post-war using real WWII-vintage components is therefore, in many cases, no longer possible.
In other words, do not pay a premium for such a rifle unless you are a forensic expert and/or the rifle is in some way documented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Which has been the case with both of mine. (If you can call a Zf41 equipped rifle a "sniper"! Not me...It's a "DMR"- possibly the first ever fielded as such.) The Simpson rework was thoroughly researched, but still is controversial to some. (Mostly to the big wheel that didn't get it on the cheap...and has bad-mouthed it ever since, even though a whole lot more evidence came to light in it's favor.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
I'd like to hear more!
Since there is no way to prove that it is an authentic sniper rifle. These people that say they have one are full of it.
There's ways that you can be reasonably sure, but we would need WAY more specifics about the rifle in question. And then it might still take a teardown and a close personal look.Quote:
Originally Posted by CurbKid
If you want to call a ZF41 variant a "sniper rifle" the numbers above make some sort of sense. In which case, they can be had for not too much, and be "real"...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff054-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff055-1.jpg
This one was coated with ancient oil that had turned to varnish. A little corrosion, but not bad, a great bore, but a mismatched bolt. Hardly something faked up!
Post pictures of the rifle in question and knowledgeable people will tell you whether it is original, or not.
Lots of fakes at every gunshow here. Very difficult to buy unless you have an "expert" with you. Let the buyer beware.
A mentor (or three!) is probably the most valuable tool to have when developing an interest in these rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
Mine's genuine, built in January 1945 at Mauser. I know the lineage. It's a hight turret equipped with a 4x90 Ajack. The scope is mismatch to the rifle and just as it was brought back in 1945.
So the closest thing to an authentic sniper rifle I can get. Is to have a numbers matching rifle and a scope from the same time period. Put them together and that’s it? This is the closest I can get?
Ummm, no.
There are matching ones out there. I've examined several over the years. I exported a couple of lovely 98K snipers to a collector in Brno, CZ a few years ago and another to a collector in Iceland. They were purchased from very reputable dealers and at very big prices. Mine is what it is with the mismatch numbered scope but it was a very late rifle and I reckon anything was possible during the final months of the war.
I quickly learned that not to many people want to give up the information about this rifles. You either know or you don't. And very few want to help the ones that don't. This seems to be the going tread on all message boards.
I don't think it's a case of not wanting to help others. There are so many dodgy fakes out there since the values for originals have gone through the roof that it's really a case of having the actual rifle in your hands, knowing what to look for and just feeling it out using gut instinct if you get my drift. Buy some reference materials, (read BOOKS), and learn all you can before you drop the big coin on one. It might save you a pile of money in the long run.
There are fakes everywhere. The sniper rifles were big prizes during WWII and started coming back in 1945. Fakes likely started coming home in 1946. You must know the field well or you will end up with a fake. One of my buddies is an advanced Henry collector. He paid over $15,000.00 for a Henry 20 years ago. It turned out to be a fake. He had to hire a lawyer to get his money back. It does happen.
CurbKid: The experts on this forum helped me, a newcomer, to see through two fake Lee Enfield snipers and shared their insights so freely that when I finely got my hands on number 3 I knew it was genuine almost immediately. Hit the forum with specific questions about individual guns with photos and you'll get all the help you need.
Ridolpho
The answer is yes, and no. The original purpose of the ZF-41 was to allow a quick mount scope for sharpshooters, one per platoon. However, due to the shortage of real sniper rifles these were reserved for sniper use until real purpose built snipers could be built in large numbers. The ZF-41 was not a good, or ever passable sniper. It was not much better as a sharpshooter either, but a couple hundred thousand were built and sent into the system. So, a rifle used for sniping is a sniper?
You have a 3 part post so I've numbered them and will reply accordingly:Quote:
Originally Posted by CurbKid
1. I wonder just where the hell stupidea gets their info? I know of NO source for even a rough estimate of the total numbers of K98k sniper rifles built.
2. With 99% certainty you can ID a sniper rifle because it has a scope mounted on top of it!
3. NO there is not!
Sarge