Just picked up a Polish Mosin Sniper and aside from a cracked wrist in need of repair, when I took it apart it does have some surface rust to barrel and receiver. What is the best way to treat and remove it without affecting the finish drastically?
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Just picked up a Polish Mosin Sniper and aside from a cracked wrist in need of repair, when I took it apart it does have some surface rust to barrel and receiver. What is the best way to treat and remove it without affecting the finish drastically?
I have used both of these products:
Kroil Google Deal
Safest Rust Remover http://www.ridrust.com/overview.asp
Use 0000 fine steel wool and go slow, be patient. Because it is a blued surface I would try the Kroil first. Apply a coat and let it soak. Gently with the steel wool and wipe clean. Reapply and repeat until the finish is what you want. Leave a thin coat of Kroil on the steel as a protectant.
Yup, Kroil or the less expensive WD40 and 0000 steel wool.
I will give them both a try. Thanks
I have had good luck with kroil oil and the edge of a pre 1980 copper penny....regards
The rust itself is more abrasive than the 4/0 steel wool, so keep whatever you are wiping it with clean.
Penny...really?Quote:
Originally Posted by techkya
Read about this on another site. I have not tried it myself so take it for what it's worth.
Electrolysis Rust Removal
You can remove rust from metal using electrolysis, and it will not harm the bluing. The main advantage to this method is it gets all the rust in hard to reach places. You will need
A plastic container that will hold the part and electrolysis solution.
Steel rod. DO NOT USE STAINLESS STEEL AS THIS WILL PRODUCE HARMFUL BYPRODUCTS.
Water
Arm & Hammer Washing Soda (not baking soda. Washing soda can be found in your local grocery store with the laundry detergent. If you cannot find washing soda, pour some baking soda--sodium bicarbonate into a pan and heat it over low-medium heat. Water and carbon-dioxide will cook-off leaving washing soda-sodium carbonate. ) Another source is swimming pool "PH Increaser." which is labeled 100% sodium carbonate. [Thanks to Bob Head for this hint]
Battery charger or other high amperage power supply.
Cautions: Wear eye protection and rubber gloves when working with this solution is very alkaline and can cause irritation. The electrolysis process breaks down water into its component parts, hydrogen and oxygen, which can be explosive. Work outside or in a very well ventilated area. Be sure your battery charger/power supply is unplugged before attaching or touching the leads.
In the container, mix 1 tablespoon of washing soda for each gallon of water to make up your solution. Be sure the washing soda is thoroughly dissolved. Place a steel rod either through the part to be cleaned (use o-rings to prevent the part from touching the rod), or numerous rods around the inside of your container. Connect these rods with wire; these will be the anode. You must be sure that the part to be cleaned is not touching the rod(s). Suspend the part in the solution with steel cable or wire so that it makes a good electrical contact with the part; this will become the cathode. Connect the negative lead (black) to the part being cleaned, connect the positive (red) lead to the rod(s), then plug in the charger. You will immediately begin to see bubbles; this is hydrogen and oxygen as the water breaks down. Allow the part to "cook" for 3-4 hours. The time is dependent on the size of the part, amount of rust, and the current of the power supply. After you remove the part, immediately clean and dry it off, then coat it with a good quality gun oil or rust preventative oil.
Thanks to Roy Seifert for this tip
Roy reports that he used this process on a 1911 frame that had a lot of surface rust all throughout the inside. He set the frame upside down on wooden blocks in the electrolysis solution and placed a rod with o-rings through the magazine well. He used a 1.5 amp trickle charger and left it for about 4 hours. When finished, the frame was completely free of rust, and the bluing was intact.
ATF and pine sol. early nickel or penny. then clean with 00 Steel wool
Instead of steel wool, I'd recommend using the Big 45 Frontier Metal Cleaner from:
Big 45 Frontier Metal Cleaner
This stuff is just the ticket and unlike steel wool which rusts like crazy itself, this stuff lasts and lasts. Very inexpensive - relatively - also. I learned about this from Rimfire Central Forum and couldn't believe the high marks it received from everyone who tried it and so I tried it for myself. Guess I'm just an unpaid but converted acolyte now. Kroil plus one of these pads will impress you! Good luck!
AQBill:dancingbanana:
Any abrasive method -steel wool or whatever, even a cloth with a cleaning agent - is going to increase wear on edges, corners and the most exposed surfaces, while totally failing to reach right into recesses.
That is why using the electrolysis method is IMOH the best way to preserve the steel and any remaining bluing.
And since the electrolytic bath basically has the same effect as the expensive "degreasers/conditioners" sold for cold bluing, you can take a piece out of the electrolytic bath, brush off any loose particles with a stiff brush, flush in clean water, and dunk straight into the bluing bath. On rusted screws, for instance, electrolysis is an excellent way to clean up the threads. Try it on an old blued part or a rusted screw!
I would endorse what No4 Mk1 T & Patrick say. Many years ago a fellow forummer sent me a scientific paper from an archaeology journal relating how to go about using the electrolytic method & I have been successfully using it for about ten years on recovered WW1 battlefield artefacts as well as small enfield parts. I use an old car battery charger set to trickle charge & a bucket filled with cold water to which I add just a sprinkling of caustic soda (NaOH - sold as crystals in the UK for unblocking your drains). Essentially you use the item you want to clean up as your cathode or negative electrode. The anode or positive electrode is sacrificial, (in other words the electrolytic process gradually corrodes it away), so I use clean pieces of scrap steel & replace them or clean them regularly as they get covered in rusty deposit quite quickly & this slows up the electrolytic process. Care must be taken as the caustic soda mix is very strongly alkaline, but in practice you only need a very dilute solution, & so long as you wash any skin splashes immediately with copious water you are not likely to come to much harm.
The beauty of this method as has already been mentioned is that it eradicates the rust from everywhere & uses no abrasion, so causes no damage whatsoever to the native steel. Incidentally it also works on non-ferrous metals & over the years I have cleaned up hundreds if not into the low thousands of WW1 battlefield recovery cartridge cases in this way.
ATB:thup:
I will have to give it a shot. Thanks again gents.
With inspiration from this tread I built a de-rusting bath, and it works great. Though the battery charger had some sort of safety that meant it didnt work when not charging a battery. I've used a old mobile phone charger and some resistors to alter the current. There are some good instructions on the net on how to build them too. Got to go and check on a SMLE nosecap now.
I made one to out of 4" heavy plastic pipe with elbows on the ends. I cut out a chanel and mounted it in a 2X4 cradle. I used a battery charger. About four hours. I needed to derust a half octagon half round fowler, it worked great. When done not much finish but the rust is gone inside and out. It looks alot better and I think it is going to be able to shoot when done.....Frank
I thought the electrolytic bath maintains the finish?Quote:
Originally Posted by frankderrico
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy
That may be a device that switches it off if the current falls below a minimum level, to prevent overcharging. The answer is to provide that minimum load by wiring a suitable resistance in parallel with the bath. Something that will draw about 50 mA should be enough.
Tower, the original finish should be maintained, but I just wondered if frankderrico's old fowler was rather more patinated than blued?? If so, the patination (being low grade corrosion) would come off.
ATB
Thanks to all you for so many suggestions. Useful. :thup:
"Blueing" is a form of oxidized iron (Fe3O4), just not the more highly oxidized "red" form (Fe2O3). Electrolysis reduces oxidized iron to metallic iron. So while I've never attempted to "derust" a blued part, I would be very very surprized if any "bluing" remains after "the bath"
Hello,
Just to inform you that using caustic soda offers no advantage whatsoever over your basic washing soda when it comes to the rust removal process via electrolysis. The "soda" is only needed to improve conduction and the washing soda does just that. Using caustic soda develops toxic fumes to a certain degree in the process, it is more expensive (when using large quantities), it is dangerous to skin and eyes and if you're a tree-hugger, is bad news for the environment.
Just my 2 cents
Greetings,
Marco
Marco,Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeland
Greetings.
A little chemistry for you, if conductivity were the chief issue, why not use plain salt (sodium chloride)?
Actually, sodium hydroxide is a better electrolyte than sodium carbonate when used here, both being MUCH better than NaCl. That's why professional restorer's of artifacts for museums use reagent grade caustic soda and not an OTC product like Arm & Hammer Washing Soda purchased from the local Piggly Wiggly like the rest of us. Using NaOH, a higher pH can be maintained to suppress the generation of hydrogen gas, a reaction which serves only to waste electricity in the reduction of iron oxides to metallic iron, itself an enironmentally unfriendly act.
It is a bit more dangerous to handle (splash hazard) but no "toxic fumes" arise from its use, and it is no more or less environmentally unfriendly when neutralized (prior to disposal down the municipal drain).
Happy D-Rusting