I want to buy a case of milsurp 7.62x54R ammo, which is better? The Bulgarian is about $30 cheaper per 880rds. Thanks. The ammo is for my PU sniper.
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I want to buy a case of milsurp 7.62x54R ammo, which is better? The Bulgarian is about $30 cheaper per 880rds. Thanks. The ammo is for my PU sniper.
Your rifle might prefer one over the other, both or neither. All 7.62x54r ball SHOULD be made to the same specs, so it is a matter of finding what your rifle prefers.
Personally, I'd take the Chinese over the Bulgarian as Chinese has worked great in all my Mosins I've run it through and I have no experience with Bulgarian ammo.
Try a little of each before you buy a crate perhaps?
Unfortunately can't do that, it comes by the case only, I' pretty happy with the Bulgarian and $30 is $30, but I keep reading good things about the Chinese ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by fernleaf
7,62x54r is sort of like .22 rimfire ammo. In that what shoots well in one rifle won't do well in another. Even lot changes may skew results. So when you find something your rifle likes, buy as much as you can stand!
The Chinese is some of the best milsurp available, no longer available in the US. Mine is coded 66/71. I pulled down 5 rounds each of 5 different milsurp loads, including 7N1, and overall consistency was best with the chinese and next was 7N1, then bxn 86. I checked bullet weights, OAL, powder weight, etc..
The best ammo available for accuracy is Extra Match. Retailers sold out fast. It is rated between about 7.0 and 8.9 cm extreme spread at 300 meters for 20 shot groups. Amazing stuff and sub-MOA capable obviously. Many of us that shoot lots of PU had shot sub-MOA with it frequently. First outing with it, my first 6 five shot groups average 1.12 inches and three groups were sub 1 inch. Bullet weight is 200 and box is yellow.
Next best is Target, also 188 coded, as is Extra, 7N1 and 714N. It is rated between 9 and 12 cm, 182 or 185 grain(forgot which). AIM had some and may still. Often sold as Match but generally in a blue or bluish cardboard box, cans are 240 rds.
Handloads with 311 SMK HPBTM and 312 Hornady match in 174 grain generally give the best accuracy.
:surrender:Ordered a case of Chinese 7.62x54R yesterday. when it gets here I will be forced to open can and test it,will report back.
This stuff is great! 5 shots, 3 touching, 1.25" group at 100 yds with Molot PU on a grey, rainy, raining day. Gotta get some more.Didn't have a Mosin a few years ago, warning!!! don't buy one, they multiply and need feeding! You have been warned.:nono:
I have found Chinese issue guns and ammunition the best there is, my issue is a Type 54 using 7.62x25. I need no other in my sovereign bunker. I am the King.....
Wait..!! Mosin Nagants shoot bullets..?? Here I thought they were extra long bayonet holders that can also be used as a club.... Who knew ?;)
Sorry about going all Lazarus on this thread, but I was Google searching and bumped into it.
So is there any consensus here on what is the better of the two surplus 7.62x54r, Chinese or Soviet?
I have some Factory 10 Soviet/Bulgarian and it shoots pretty well out of my M-44 and SVT-40. (Yes, my M-44 is more accurate than the SVT-40) So I'm contemplating some Chinese that's on deal.
Any one prefer one over the other? And why so?
There are different vintages of Chinese surplus out there. I had good luck with some 2011 dated stuff that was rumoured to be non-corrosive (then found to be corrosive by some) but it worked very well in my SVT's. Now all I have is some 60's Chinese that seems dirtier but will do very good groups with both SVT's and Mosins. Had a comparison test against some Soviet silver tip and the Chinese stuff beat it hands down (the soviet stuff had occasional click-bangs which this particular version is known for). The Chinese stuff was doing repeat one inch three shot zeroing groups in a PU. The numbers on the head are 61/67 while the evil Russian stuff was marked 188/71.
Ridolpho
Well good to know, thanks Mr.R!
I've not had the best success with Chinese ammo in the past. It would shoot all over the place. And yes, it was very dirty stuff that smelled like FART. After I pulled a few bullets apart I noticed some projectiles were a different size. Hmmmm..I seem to remember something of a rumor about Chinese quality,....you know the rest. However this was in 7.62x39. Once I procured some 1973 7.62x39/Factory #539 surplus (Tula I believe) I discovered the soviet produced product was some of the best I've ever shot, with the Czech being just below that.
So thank you for the encouraging words on the Chinese. I've just purchased some 7.62x54r produced in 1957. I've yet to get out and fire any of it yet. So now I'm real curious and can't wait. Sure hope it still goes bang!
Paul
Because...it was loaded with dung of their ancestors...Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTT-33
Yeah, maybe. (But didn't they invent gunpowder?) Pee yew...wonder how bad it smelled back then? :madsmile:
Like typical black powder I expect...Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTT-33
When the Chinese stuff was available in the US. It was the ammo in 7.62x54R and 7.62x39mm but highly corrosive.
"The" ammo. Really. ? I'm a little surprised by that. But that's surplus for ya, some good, some not so good, and fortunately mostly all goes bang. Where the projectile goes?...results can vary. Just hope mine will still do the business..it was made in 1957. (I had a crate of 1958 that didn't all go boom.) So here's hoping.
As far as the corrosive thing..? I think too many people make corrosive ammo into some kind of boogeymen man. I just put the kettle on, the boiled water goes down the barrel, flushing out the salty primer residue, swab it out with Ballistol, nuttin to it. 5 years in and I do not, and have never had, a corrosion problem. Me likey that corrosive. :thup:
Little update for you Mr.Ridolpho. I've still not fired any of it, the dang wind chill kept things at a frosty -21C today. Maybe first of the week things will improve. I'll report back with my findings. Also the ammo lots are both Factory 61. With the one being produced in 1957 (61/57) and the second stamped 61/66. So far so good. I hope the powder burns just like the Soviet stuff. Makes for a nice Thunder an Lightning effect out of my M-44.
PaulTT-33: We've had a super mild winter out west here. It was +12C at my range in the foothills last Friday. Was using my '43 PU which really seems to like the two different vintages of Chinese that I have. Also tried some silvertip Soviet stuff but every now and then one would give a noticeable delay in firing. Really throws you off. Hope you're weather improves and you are able to get out.
Ridolpho
we chronographed some late 1950's (1955 or 1958 iirc) Chinese 7.62x54r from a sealed "sardine tin" and found the average velocity spread to be under 5 fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTT-33
IIRC the highest deviation was 9 fps.
we chewed up a lot of the rounds just doing velocity testing as we had a hard time believing how consistent it was in a 91-30.
I do not recall the group sizes, just that they were fairly good...
That's outstanding for some old surplus. Really good for anything else. Thanks for that. My fears have been put to rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
Well Mr. Ridolpho we were having a bit of a Chinook effect as well. The warm temps came and went quickly, but not before nature dumped 30-50 ml of rain on top of the frozen ground. So most of that ended up in my basement. Uggh. I imagine the road to the range is quite a mess as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridolpho
Unfortunately the promised update isn't as in depth as I was hoping. However I did manage to test fire a few rounds (25) thru my M-44 with encouraging results. (I left my SVT-40 at home. I didn't want to confuse myself or the results too badly.) Once I got to the range I couldn't gain access to the 25 yard sight-in range, meaning I did not get a chance to compare zero results or the longer follow up shots. But I did sit in with some guys at the 50, and knowing my rifle and its zero with the Soviet factory 10 surplus, I was surprised to see the first volley of 61/57 shoot a fair bit lower. . . after a quick n dirty rear sight adjustment we got on the 2 inch target as best my 58 year old eyes will allow. Anecdotal side note: both the 61/57 and 61/66 stuff didn't want to feed off my stripper clips ?? I've not had that happen with the Soviet. No biggie, I like to fondle the copper washed jewelry anyway. Its part of the fun. The good news was both years of Chinese went....B O O M...ha ha ha, that M-44 is such a hoot...and they even grouped a bit tighter. Color me surprised. It even smelled "normal" no big dirty sulphur plumes. I do however find it a bit dirtier. Seems to take longer to clean out my barrels after shooting the Chinese. So in conclusion, so far, so good, or as youtubes Sootch00 likes to say, two thumbs, way up!
Anyway that's it for now...gotta go man the pumps and the mops.