Reloading for Canadian 303 Ross Rifle

I had posted this on the cast boolits forum but thought it would be of interest to folks here also.
Here's my experience in reloading for the Ross. A few weeks ago I bought a nice MKII Ross. It was one of the 20,000 purchased by the US in 1917 to use in place of the 03 Springfield for training US troops so the 03's could be issued to line troops. The rifle has US proofs.
The Ross had a reputation of being an extremly accurate rifle. Being US issued and consided very accurate were reasons why I wanted one but the Ross suffered grave malfunctions in the trenches in WWI because it was designed for quality controlled close tolerence peace time Canadian 303 cartridges and could not handle the loose tolerence British ammo as well as the mud.
In order to try to correct this situation, the chambers on most or the Ross rifles were reamed out larger but eventually they were replaced by the Lee Enfield and the Ross only used in the sniper role.
I miked the bore of my Ross and the bore was .302 and the grooves a true .312.
My three Enfields mike out as the bores at .305 and grooves .314.
With the smaller dia bores I can see why the Ross's shoot so well.

I form fired a case in mine to see if the chamber had been reamed out and it had been. I then loaded up some test rds using 20grs of 4227 powder behind a beagled 311413 sized 312. and a 314299 sized at .314. It was cold at the range, in the 30's, so only fired 10 of each at 35 yrs to see how they functioned and both bullets grouped well.

The cases were expanded a lot but I figured this wouldn't be too much of problem as I would just back the sizing die out enough to just neck size and not full length the case. I didn't want to work the cases too much so they would last.

However when I backed the die out enough to only size the neck I found that the overall dia of the case had expanded so much that when I tried to put the case into the die enough to just size the neck I had to use force to get the case far enough into the die to just size the neck. In doing so I found that I was reducing the diameter of the case below the neck by .020. So in effect I was working the brass much more then I wanted if I expected to get the brass to last for many reloads.
For once my brain worked and as I also reload for 7.7. Jap and have a neck sizing die for that caliber. And as the dia of the Jap case is larger the the .303 case and the neck sized dia even more so. I tried a couple of the just fired .303 cases in the 7.7 die and it worked beautifully by just sizing the neck and not touching the body. Thus a minimum of working the case. You can see the differences in the shoulders of the fired case which I already reloaded, and an unfired case.
Any suggestions would be welcomed, Ray
The attched photo shows the fired ross case compared to a new unfired case. Keep in mind the it would not look as bad next to another case that had been fired in an Enfield as that case would have expanded quite a bit also. Ray

That is really cool, I'm sure with such attention to detail you and your Ross produce some excellent groups! Can we get any details regarding group size?

I only fired those test rds at 50 yrds just to see if they had potential. I didn't try for close groups as it was too cold and my eyes are not the best. However all seemed to group within 2". Next time I will concentrate more and try at the 100yd line. Ray

I'd like to hear back from you regarding accuracy at 100y with your Ross rifle. I'm spending from now until next hunting season trying to decide on the proper straight-pull for deer. I know the K31 is a very accurate rifle but I've heard Ross rifles are also exceptionally accurate when functioning properly haha. I have a Steyr M95 right now and I'd like to try a Ross rifle before committing to another out-dated and hard to acquire cartridge haha.

Rayg do you have a 303 neck sizing die? They work really well on fire formed brass. In the meantime that's one well reamed chamber! I have a Mk. III Ross and my chamber isn't reamed nearly as much.

Hi-S, I don't have a .303 neck sizing die but I have a hunch because of the case expanson the case would not fit in the die.
Check a more complete thread on this I started on the cast boolit forum. As you can see the overall expanson of the case is pretty much were it probably wouldn't fit in any .303 Dia. die. I also need to use the 7.7. jap bullet seating dia. to allow the seating of the bullets.

Reloading for Canadian 303 Ross Rifle - Cast Boolits

I hope to try some loads out at the 100yr soon. Ray

Dear RayG, This may be a little late, but I have been occupied and not on the site very much. I have two loads that are capable of 1" groups from my Ross
model of 1910. I sometimes shoot a flyer, but I call it when I do.
The first is 46 gr. of H 380, 150 gr. Sierra FB Spitzer, Federal primers when I can get them, otherwise Winchester. Your C.O.L. will depend on your rifle.
The second is even better by a little bit. 40.7 gr. IMR 4064, 180 gr. Sierra Spitzer (flat base) same primers, my C.O.L. is 3.125", yours may be different.
I think it is worth it to buy a neck sizer die and a Lee crimping die - I seat my bullets WAY out, and the crimping die gives them some bullet pull with a light crimp. Also keeps them from getting knocked out. The neck die should solve your problem. I separate all cases for all my different guns and they last a long time that way.
Hope this is helpful,
Kari

Hi Kari, well I just ordered a Lee crimp die but in 7.7. Jap. That way I can use it for the 7.7, .303 and also my .312 dia bullet for my 1903A4. Ray

Some great info here...

I'm just getting into reloading... and I have a MkIII Ross...

Is there anything special I have to do/look out for when reloading for a rifle that's nearly a century old?

I have FL sized, trimmed, and chamfered my brass, then will load a variety of powder loads in the bottom half of the load range...

I'm using Win Brass, IMR 4895, Hornady 174 gr FMJBT, and will set my OAL to 3.075" according to the manual...

Form here I plan to keep my brass separate from my LE rifle's brass, and only neck size future loads...

Does this sound reasonable?

EB

I rechambered a 1910 Ross to .303 Epps Improved. 56 gr of 4350 gave slightly over 2700 with a 174 Gr. Sierra Match King. I don't recommend that anybody do the same, but there were no excess pressure signs, and the cartridges ejected perfectly. In spite of the bolt controversy, the Ross is a strong rifle. Accuracy was about 3 inch groups, which is about my limit with iron sights.:madsmile:

Ray,
Sorry I am late to this party. Looks like your chamber is reamed even larger than any fired .303 case I have ever seen. I buy lots of once fired brass when I can find them.
Have you ever made a chamber cast of your chamber?
As far as suggestions go:

1. The 7.65 Mauser can also be use as a neck sizer if you are careful not to set the shoulder back.
2. If your chamber is much larger at the head than a maximum Lee-Enfield chamber you could possible reform other brass if you do not shoot a lot.
Do you have any idea how you headspace is set up? It appears the Canadian method for the #4 eventually was the shortest bolt head without going over .074. I ask about the headspace because Hornady .405 Win brass (pricey) has .457 to .458 heads but the rim is a little thicker at .068 to .070. The rim is also a little larger in diameter.
.444 Marlin can also be reformed but it runs a little large than most .303 chambers so it required the head be swaged or reduced slightly.

The phot of the fired case shows pretty much what you would expect from a Ross with the altered chamber. The rifle no doubt has E, or LC stamped on the top breech of the barrel.
I would suggest that if you want to reload cases fired in this rifle that you try a Lee collet type neck sizing die. Or a conventional neck sizing die that contacts only the neck, but no part of the body.

Looks like it was reamed for another cartridge altogether. Could be they adapted the reamers used for some other chambering.
Should make headspacing on the shoulder easier with that much surface area.

The chambers were deliberately reamed oversize in a misguided attempt to eliminate jamming problems. Some rifles were altered in a workshop in England. New production rifles were made with the enlarged chambers after the introduction date. There are different patterns of enlarged chamber.
FWIW, chamber drawings for the SMLE were revised in 1915 because of the same ammunition problems that affected the Ross.
Cases fireformed in a specific rifle could be treated as if headspaced on the shoulder, but this can be done with many calibres.

MkI and early MkII Rosses were made with a .299" bore and a .309" groove dia. even though they were .303" cal. It is advisable to check the bore size on these arms.

Yes. Many do. My II** (1912, I think) commercial target rifle has a .303 barrel. With Rosses it is best not to make assumptions. I do not think any Mk. III rifles were made with the tight bore.
Some Mk. II rifles had their chambers reamed, as well.