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I have just come across a complete set of engineering drawings of the De Lisle carbine.
They are marked "Sterling Engineering Co Ltd" and dated July 1944.
The set consists of 50 plus drawings detailing every part of the De Lisle.
They come with a letter dated 1984 signed by the Managing Director of Sterling.
Are these drawings uncommon or are there loads of sets out there?
No I can't answer your direct question, but I've never heard of drawings being released. The question I would have is about Crown copyright and intellectual properties. Did Sterling own the rights or did MOD retain control over certain military implements?
I think that they are reasonably readily available. Certainly a company making superb repro carbines have them and good faithful repros of the DeLisle have been availabl;e for some time. If anyone has the IPR on the design, then it'd be well past its expiry date now in any case...........
If you got them 303 collector, then others certainly will have them...............
How about donating a copy to the Milsurps Knowledge Library? I for one would be very interested in seeing them.
A famous company from Scotland have a set, used to manufacture their own museum grade DeLisle copies. They came to see us and used out three DeLisles to check their drawings. Alas,, when they did so, it's clear to see that each weapon is a one off! The variables in the bodies effectively see to that I understand!
Indeed, a copy in the milsurps library would be a useful addition to the knowledge base. I find them interesting in that the effort involved in using whatever wartime parts were available, such as thompson barrels, 1911 mags and worn out SMLE rifles, and producing a useable item to be quite fascinating.
are they similar to these?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303 Collector
Do the drawings show any specif markings that were applied to the carbines during manufacture or inspection.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
I'd be interested in a set.
A grail rifle indeed. Does anybody on this site own an original?
I don't own one but I had control of three originals. They were one of these things that have gone into firearms folklore, like the Thompson gun - if there is such a thing! We tested a perfectly serviceable one with a rudimentary decibel meter against a Mk2S Sten gun and a Mk5 Sterling/L34 and........... Anyway, you didn't need to look at the meter readouts because the Sten was audibly quieter than the DeLisle
The only original, real DeLisle I have seen is in the Imperial War Museum in London. I've also seen one made from a No. 4 rifle (and therefore likely a reproduction) in another museum here in Australia.
I used to own a take down one in the pre handgun ban era. Lovely bit of kit built on a No4 action that broke down and fitted into a briefcase, wonder if I can find any old 35mm pics of it anywhere?
I hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon
As the wife and I are expecting child version 2.0 to come along very soon, I'd happily give my right testicle for a De-Lisle.
A friend of mine has one, still wasn't successful in convincing him to sell it. I however have no clue how to determine whether it's an original one or a reproduction? The only silenced British gun I have is a Welrod.
There was also a .22 version shown at the bottom of the web page on Terence's website:
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/The_DeLisle_carbine.htm
Section 5 in the UK (Barrel's too short.) However one would almost certainly get a Section 7(3) exemption for one. Having said that I know lots of (most?) Section 7(3) owners in t'south and don't know of one in private hands. (Real ones that is.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugs
Not sure on the section 7(3) but If you did get a Section 7(1) for one , you cant have any other section 1, .45 ACP firearm......Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
Just glad there are a few who know about the De-Lisle status regarding section 5, if any of the repro ones in circulation that are suppose to be built to teh same original drawings then they are section 5, if the the shroud is fixed and cant be removed then you can get round it, but you cant strip it to clean it, and if it was built to original spec then you would need to get in and clean it........ a catch 22 if there ever was one.
I,ve said it before I was looking at making one but wanted an exact replica but to build it to section 1 then its not a De-Lisle in my view as the De-Lisle part was everything forward of the action.
There was an original one in North West many years ago as member of a club who uses our club range was offered it but turned it down due to it being Section 5.... never knew what happened to it after that.
You'll have to help me here because I don't see why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
I know where there is one, fondled it but it is not for sale and here in Canada would be very few who would have the correct lic. to buy it.
Sad.
My mistake Beerhunter, have corrected original post it was section 7(1) I was referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
We are going to have to let this tread go dormant or I am going to have to find a repro. Very high Enfield "cool factor".
De Lisle Carbine - YouTube
You are correct that if one has Section 7(1) firearms at home then one cannot keep any ammunition in their calibre(s) at home. However you can keep a pistol or revolver that would qualify for Section 7(1) as a Section 7(3). IN that case, one keeps the pistol or revolver at a "designated Site" and keep the ammunition for it at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
It's a little academic for the De Lisle because .45ACP is "readily available in the UK" and therefore you can't have a De Lisle on Section 7(1) only Section 7(3). For example I own a Colt Government Model (a "commercial" M1911) in .45ACP and it has to be held on Section 7(3) at Bisley. However I hold the .45ACP ammunition at home.
What a palava............. I wonder how they get away with sheer idiotic laws like this. As for the interpretations you could put on it all.................
Thats just the icing on the cake........but it does allow old pistols to be still shot and to be held in a collection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Just a question to Beerhunter and other section 7(1) 7(3) owners I always under the impression any age related pistol could be held on a section 7(1) ?? regardless of the availability of ammo as long as you dint have it in the house (the ammo) or is post 24 based on the De-Lisle ??
Must admit I,ve only recently got collectors slots on my FAC for a few Enfield's etc but am looking at section 7(1) and possibly 7(3) in the future, although the 7(3) may be a bit ambitious as I still cant hit a barn door with a BP pistol or a LBR.....
You need to read the Guidance to the Police very carefully. It has just been re written. Here is the link
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...6_Nov_2013.pdf
At the start I had some pistols at Bisley on Sec 7.3. Not fully understanding the law I surrendered some that were made after 1919 that I could have kept. My police force allowed me to keep my old ammunition allocation at home. Strathclyde and a number of other forces imposed limits such as 10 rounds per calibre of pistol to be possessed at any time. Shooters were to reload on range. Some forces were easy to deal with others were complete bastards. I was lucky until some plod read the regulations before a renewal and ran into ammo trouble. Moved house to an area that had NO Sec 7.3 shooters and have now managed to extend the collection. However I have no sympathy for some so called shooters who cannot read / bother their arse to come up with a reasonable 'Theme for collection' etc. We were lucky to get Sec 7.3 at times it's a bit of a 'Game' but if you want to play, do it properly and do not screw it up for the rest of us.
In the new guidance Sec 9.42 and 9.43 refer to ammunition for Sec 7.1 and Sec 7.3 Firearms. To me it looks like they have seen sense and as I have no Sec 7.1 I will be asking my ploice force to change the conditions on my FAC to allow me to homeload and store ammo for my section Sec 7.3 pistols at home.
There is a guy on another forum who has what he believes is a 1970s Hi Power (Its actually 1950s). I could never get my head around how he got it on 7.3 when its old, not rare or unique. I still don't understand it!
Don't try to 'Understand it' just go for it. I managed a late 9mm Browning how I did it is my business. The clue is in the 'Collection'. So THINK!
British Army sidearms 1880 to 1980 any one?
The pistols of John Moses Browning?
Canadian sidearms in WW1 WW2 and Korea?
Use your brain, back it up with some decent research, a lot easier with the web. Know your stuff and sound credible and you have a good chance.
If your father and grandfathers served then it's might be a family connection that forms part of your collecting theme.
I would happily pay good money for a copied set. Please PM me if agreeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by 303 Collector
The simple answer to your question is no.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
A section 7(1) MUST have been made (the actual pistol or revolver) before 1919. This is hard-coded into the Act and there are no powers to vary it. Additionally, it MUST be of a calibre for which ammunition is not "readily available in the UK". The latter is based on a list of calibres published by the Secrtratery of state and includes: .45ACP, 9mm Para, .38 S&W, .38 Spec., etc.
Simples! A Section 7(3) pistol or revolver does not have the hard-coded dateline of Section 7(1) and so it can be quite modern in some cases AS LONG AS it is of HISTORIC INTEREST. For example, a friend of mine has a SIG self-loading pistol of 1970s vintage on Section 7(3) because it was one of the trials pistols bought for British forces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit plumber
Historic interest justification for 7(3) can also be "as part of a collection", for example I am also allowed a High-Power because it is part of my Great War and Second World War collection of firearms and equipment. Another collector without my "theme" justification would not be allowed the SAME pistol on 7(3).
Do you still have these drawing available? if so are they for sale?Quote:
Originally Posted by 303 Collector
Thanks
Pete