Luger with mismatched extractor

Hello,

Bear with me as I know this is a very vague question. I plan on looking at a Luger tomorrow, dated 1941, accompanied by a holster. My question is, if all serial numbers match except the extractor, what kind of a value detractor is that? In reference to collector value, that is. Assuming the pistol is about 95% blue, nothing else special about it like a rare maker etc. The asking price is $1200. I apologize for the vague nature of this thread, especially lacking photos for an evaluation, but this only came up today as a possible purchase and I have never dealt with Lugers before. I appreciate any information that you can give me!

Thanks.

P.S. As I stated I have little knowledge of Lugers, the seller likely has less. Is it a bad idea to purchase this if I have not had it stripped to check the various small serial numbered parts not visible when the pistol is assembled? I certainly would not be skilled enough to do that.

No idea what prices are like where you are. But I´d take a look at the main German auction site: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4347833. Prices range from just a few Euros (for a gun with quite a bit of pitting, but with a good barrel) to about 1.000€ for a desirable (early) collector´s item (with only a mis-matched trigger). I wouldn´t be prepared to pay more than 450€ for a standard Luger (P08), a shooter, over here.

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Originally Posted by clarkmilitaria

My question is, if all serial numbers match except the extractor, what kind of a value detractor is that? In reference to collector value, that is.

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Collectors pay a lot for all-matching Lugers. The key element is ALL. Nearly all-matching doesn't count when it comes to serious money. As a result, the quantity of faked numbers on Luger parts is probably enormous!

In this kind of situation, the first rule is: if you are not an expert, have it looked at by someone who is. I was at a BDMP handgun competition yesterday (well, someone has to come last!) and talked to a Luger fan who had an all-matching Luger with a rare source marking. Well, not quite all matching, one piece inside was non-matching. A collector, who examined the gun in his presence, pointed this out and said he would give over 3000 euros for a perfect example, but with one non-matching internal part he was not interested.

Patrick is quite right* - it is perfectly matched, or it is a shooter. Nothing else matters much.

*Patricks are always right, OK?

It all depends on why you are acquiring a Luger. If you want one for your collection I would wait on an all matching pistol, but if you simply want a shooter the deal isn't that bad considering the condition plus holster.

Thank you all for the input! I was thinking what you all backed up, that even one small mismatch mostly if not entirely removes collector status, as this is the same idea with other guns I am more familiar with. I decided to wait on this purchase, I'm sure I can find a collector grade at some point.

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Originally Posted by clarkmilitaria

I'm sure I can find a collector grade at some point.

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But the rule still applies: let an expert look it over. If one mismatched part makes such a financial difference, then be sure that forced matching is not infrequent!

I´ve been trying to talk a German gunsmith into using his vast collection of original stamps to provide Lugers and K89ks to the US market for years. He always says that his Lugers are bench matched and tested and shoot better than any fully numbered gun could be expected to after all the years it´s been in use. These Germans are just too honest. The main German auctioneers Hermann Historica Hermann Historica have quite a few "fully numbered" Lugers in their coming sale. But they don´t guarantee their wares. If you want to spend the rest of your life bickering over the provenance of Lugers on the basis of half digested, historically unproven hearsay, the take a quick (very short) look into Activity Stream - Jan C Still Luger Pistols Central Powers Axis Pistols Discussion Boards From Gunboards.com

Herman Historica has had some really fake pieces for sale in previous auctions. One Singer in particular was a very crude fake.

It takes more than just stamping numbers on a pistol to fake it where no one can tell. They are preying on the uninformed with forced matched weapons.

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Originally Posted by villiers

I´ve been trying to talk a German gunsmith into using his vast collection of original stamps to provide Lugers and K89ks to the US market for years.

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Patrick, you cannot be serious:move eek: you know that's naughty:nono:

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Originally Posted by villiers

He always says that his Lugers are bench matched and tested and shoot better than any fully numbered gun could be expected to after all the years it´s been in use.

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He's probably right.

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Originally Posted by villiers

These Germans are just too honest.

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Or have a slightly more rigorous attitude to what constitutes fraud.:thup:

Only thought up the scheme for a giggle.

How about showing some of your gunsmith friends vast collection of original stamps?

Now how could I show someone else´s property without breaking and entering?

PS

The black magic surrounding the commercial value of "collector grade" firearms is somewhat similar to the authentification of the Turin shroud (SS & Spandau Lugers, SS K89ks ... and maybe even SS Zulu spears). It´s time to come up with something spectacular, but anything I could dream up has already been done, most of it on your side of the ocean.

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Originally Posted by villiers

Now how could I show someone else´s property without breaking and entering?

PS

The black magic surrounding the commercial value of "collector grade" firearms is somewhat similar to the authentification of the Turin shroud (SS & Spandau Lugers, SS K89ks ... and maybe even SS Zulu spears). It´s time to come up with something spectacular, but anything I could dream up has already been done, most of it on your side of the ocean.

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If you know him well enough to discuss creating fakes, you should be close enough to ask him if you could photograph a few Nazi era dies.

The fakes are for those that don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground, and have too much money to bother learning anything.

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Originally Posted by villiers

K89k

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Well I haven't see one of those yet!