My 1929 manufactured '03 Springfield (with pics)

As I promised in the thread about USMC reproduction sights, here is a picture of my 1929 Springfield rifle. When I got it I was told it was "correct." The parkerizing is almost 100 percent - I'd guess around 95 or so. The biggest blemishes are on the left side of the front band and the edges of the swivels.

The barrel is in decent shape for a milsurp I suppose. There are a few pits, but nothing too extreme. The stock is in great shape, other than a few dings here and there. All in all, its not bad at all.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7c2fa15f-1.jpg




I am looking to get a Ray Vin micrometer for the rear sight, and a bayonet - and of course more ammo. Soon as I pick up those odds and ends, I think I will be set for a little while.

---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

Guess I can only do two pics a post ...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...789a0dc4-1.jpg

Beautiful Rifle!!!

Sweet! How is the bolt marked?

Mike

Bolt marked "NS" on the top, and has some sort of tiny stamp on the underside that looks like a miniature flaming bomb. Barrel is original to the rifle, stamped SA 11-29 with the flaming bomb. Stock has the SA over SPG in the box, and a circle P on the wrist behind the trigger guard. She is in the 1334*** range.

I have been pretty lucky, the rear sight is tight and everything is in good shape. It's about the year of rifle my Grandfather would have carried while he was in the service. I need to track down the contents of the cleaning kit, as I only have the nickle/brass tube in the stock compartment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CW Mock

Guess I can only do two pics a post ...

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You can add as many pics as you'd like... :thup:

To learn more about about how to handle pics, please read this thread in the Q&A - Help Forums, which also appears as a "sticky" thread at the top of every forum on the site.

How do I upload pictures to my posts for storage on milsurps.com? (click here)

In the case of pics stored in our member's Photo Gallery, all you have to do is click on the pic in the album and you'll see an area at the bottom where the cu-n-paste code is created for you, so you can simply use it within any post. Click Here to have a look at an example of one of the pics above ….

If you still have problems, email them to me at badger@milsurps.com and I'll resize them for you, then post them in the thread under your name

Regards,
Doug

I got this rifle some twenty years ago, barrel is SA 7-29 dated, bolt is NS, stock is D.A.L. cartouched.Attachment 42385

Here are a few more pics I found ...
[IMG]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...psf36e3bf3.jpg[/IMG]

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d7bfe4cd-1.jpg

One shows the stamp on the left side of the stock for the SA SPG in a box. It looks like some G-man sanded off the original stamp on the wrist (with a file probably) but in good light you can make out that it was a rectangle with * AL. I can only guess DAL ...

I wish there was a way to know where this rifle had been/issued to. I'm not knowledgeable enough on 1903 rifles to know. Just seemed to be a nice find because it had the 1929 barrel on it that was not shot out. It was measured with a TE of 2.75 ... so its not brand new, but not completely shot out either.

I'm looking forward to replacing the sights with a USMC set and going to the WW1 shoot. I don't know if they are common, but any time I get to shoot at random ranged targets while wearing a web belt and a tin hat is a hoot. I shot it with an SMLE last time, and it was a lot of fun! Just need a micrometer, US ammo belt, 1906 Bayonet and my own M1917/Brodie helmet and I'll be set up!

Attachment 42424That SA SPG cartouche is not original looking to me



Here is one of my SA SPG cartouches from a SA 1.47 mil rifle with a SA 9-35 dated barrel

Agreed. The cartouche does not look right.

Picture makes it look a little weird. Its got sharp corners on it, not rounded ones like the other pictures. I have only seen a few rifles with it in the same place as mine too - most of the time its back where the other marking is, on the wrist. The bottom of the wrist has a Circle P, and then another P stamped over it. That some type of rebuild/recertification proof mark?

Stock looks a liitle sanded to me. Cartouche looks "enhanced". Not re-finished in an Arsenal. Likley done at home.

The stock does look sanded and stained perhaps with Chestnut Ridge military stain? And a fresh coat of BLO. Nice rifle though....

I have never sanded it, or used stain since I have had it. All I use on my military rifles is raw linseed oil and a lot of elbow grease. I never thought of stain when I got it, as it has the same coloring as the SMLE rifles I have, and I know they aren't stained.

I went looking through some of the info I have on the rifle, and I found this:

"I know very little about the rifle's history except what applies to '03s generally. I will give you some info which I extract from the handbook, The Collectable '03 by Jesse C. Harrison, published in 1977.

* It was assembled at the Springfield Armory in November of 1929. The barrel is stamped 11 - 29. The serial number is commensurate with this time frame. The first '03 serial number for 1929 was 1305901. The first no. for 1930 was 1338406. So the no. 1334393 on this rifle shows that it was made close to the end of 1929. Sometime in 1927 Springfield began installing nickel steel bolts in new rifles. These were stamped "N.S." at the top of the bolt handle. From this we can ascertain with some confidence that the receiver / bolt / barrel have been one unit since the date of manufacture.

* At some point between 1936 and 1945 it was sent back to Springfield for detailed technical inspection / rework. My guess would be closer to 1945. This is indicated by the stamp SA / SPG on the left side of the stock just above and forward of the trigger. SA was for Springfield Armory and SPG was the initials of the inspector Stanley P Gibbs. The square corners of the box surrounding stamped letters indicate check and test. Bevelled / rounded corners on the same box would indicate new rifle test and acceptance. S. P. Gibbs worked at SA in this capacity from 1936 - 1945.

* I don't see anything to indicate that the stock is not original to the rifle. Sadly, the original acceptance "cartouche", just above the rear of the trigger guard, has been carefully obliterated. I can't imagine why. It looks to be the work of the armory people since the finish matches the rest of the rifle. Possibly there was damage in that spot and they decided to sand it out / refinish. It was most likely D.A.L. in a box with rounded corners, which was a common acceptance stamp in the years 1918-1942. The identity of "D.A.L." is unknown to Harrison. The stamp in the cutoff recess, just above the rear recoil bolt, is supposed to be an 'S'. At first look it appears to be a 'J', which makes no sense, since Harrison says if any stamp is present there it should be an 'S'. Note: Harrison states in several places throughout his book that is knowledge is incomplete and that he has come across a number of stamps of all types that he can't explain. I have one '03 from 1918 that is all correct with the exception of a distinct 'R' in the cutoff recess which Harrison never mentions.

Just behind the trigger guard, on the bottom, is the firing proof. This is a block letter P in a circle. At Springfield the circle was 1/2" in diameter. At Rock Island the circle was 7/16 in. and the P was a script-style. Note that a newer and smaller P has been stamped over the original which is well-worn. This smaller P was done when the rifle was again test-fired during its trip to check and test toward the end of the war.

The regular assembly line production of 1903 Springfields ended in 1927. This is a fact. Subsequent to that year the assembly line was run for specific procurements to replace known or projected attrition of rifles already in service. Consequently the configuration of the 1927 production was generally applicable to everything produced thereafter with the exception of the new "C" type pistol-grip stock accepted in 1928. This, however, was not seen on anything but the NRA rifles until about 1934. The large unused quantity of the traditional "S" stocks had to be used up first.

I bought this rifle in June 1998 from a gentleman in Lake Oswego, OR. He didn't know much about it and didn't say how long he had had it. Undoubtedly it was released to the DCM in the late '40s or early '50s and sold by them to a qualified civilian. From the looks of it, it hasn't been used much since its last military service, although it was used regularly when it was in the Army or USMC. The barrel has a throat erosion of 2.75. ( 0 was new, 5.0 was the point at which the barrel was replaced.) I think that a Navy-owned rifle would have been fired much less."

I looked at the information I had available to me at the time, and I couldn't find anything directly contradictory. The rifle has just passed from me to that owner from Texas. When you have good source of light at the right angle, you can still make out the shadow of an "A.L." in a box on that obviously sanded spot on the wrist. If someone else sanded the rest of the stock and stained it, they did a pretty good job of keeping it even, as there are no inconsistencies inside or out.

Is that information I have accurate? Always looking to update/learn more.

Harrison information concerning Stanley Gibbs and the war years and post war rebuild period are not correct.

Stanley Gibbs was the only inspector cartouche used on the early production of the "gas trap" M1 rifle starting in 1937, this was an almost square corner box with narrow letters.
In October of 1940 the initials of the inspector was changed to SA GHS.

During the post war period from 1947 to 1950, Stanley Gibbs once again started inspection and cartouching M1 rifles (rebuilds). The post war SA SPG had the "fat letters" and round corners on the box

I must correct myself the stock does not appear to have been sanded or stained as first viewed though an iphone... my apologies

No need to apologize!

My iPhone does the same thing to me. The drawbacks of such nifty technology. I was looking at the pictures in some photo editing software one day, its funny how easy it is to change the coloring of the photo, and by extension the rifle with an inadvertent click.

Wish I knew more about all the cartouches and they were more consistent. I have been looking around online and the only hard fast rule I have seen is that "anything could be possible." I suppose that's from all of these rifles being viewed as tools of war, not potential museum pieces or heirlooms. Rifles were taken apart, mixed up and sent out in whatever configuration was needed to work. Kind of makes it hard to sort out. I know my SMLEs are notorious for that in the FTR process. My '41 Lithgow has a mixture of BA and MA parts, and there is no way to tell how many came from the original build, and then the '47 FTR process. So it just goes down as being as "correct" as possible as the builders didn't even really care as long as it worked. I can only assume that 1903 rifles are the same way.

Anyways, was there ever another SPG at the armory? I'm trying to figure out how/why that mark was put there, as it doesn't seem like anyone in the "chain of custody" for this rifle would ever have a reason to put a fake one there. I'm not worked up about it as long as it shoots straight, and the other people who had it either didn't care either or were collectors. Are there other marks I should be looking for on the rifle that can teach me more about its history?

Sorry, the front stock bolt is nearly flush. This is due to the stock being sanded. Aresenal? Perhaps so. Home? Perhaps so. Very nice story gun, but buy the gun not the story.

Yeah there are the same type of rough file marks there by the front stock bolt as the ones that removed the cartouche on the wrist. It looks like it was attacked by a drunken ape, not someone looking to beautify the overall rifle.