Today's mystery object:
Attachment 42448
Coming Soon to a Forum Near You!
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Today's mystery object:
Attachment 42448
Coming Soon to a Forum Near You!
8 X 50 case, likely Berdan primed, modified to use a small starter pistol blank as a primer?
More than likely an adapter for an obsolete rim fire cartridge. That way you can re-prime it for reloading...
10.4x38R rimfire case for a Swiss Vetterli, the Patrick Chadwick version.:D
Nearly, but not quite, Vintage Hunter!
Ok then it's a case for the .41 Swiss Peabody you found ''last week''.:madsmile:
Bingo!
Pics next week.
...body
A few pics for those who have been watching this space.
One the one hand...
Attachment 42668
On the other...
Attachment 42666
Yes, it really is a Peabody!
Attachment 42664
Swiss acceptance mark
Attachment 42667
Bluing, what bluing?
Attachment 42665
Internals to come.
Taunt us some more! Next thing you know, there'll be little tiny groups shot with the thing...:rolleyes:
(Need an emoticon that's kicking itself in the rear...)
If you insist...Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
This rifle is one of the 1867 version rifles ordered by the Swiss in 10.4x38R, also known as .41 Swiss Rimfire. In 1875 the rifles were modified to have a narrower extractor and a replacement block and striker (firing pin).
Attachment 42817Attachment 42799Attachment 42814
This is therefore an M1867/75 Swiss Peabody.
In 1877 there was a further conversion, using Swiss replacement barrels with a hexagonal knoxform. But for the 1875 modification, the Swiss just shortened the original barrel (removing the wide extractor cutout) made a new extractor cutout, and recut the chamber and barrel thread.
Attachment 42815
Which is why there is a small stamp on the root of the barrel that has partially disappeared into the barrel ring.
Attachment 42816
And why the (original!) cleaning rod seems a bit long for the barrel.
Attachment 42800 Attachment 42798 Attachment 42806
Note that the barrel bands have the typical "U" of American rifles of the period. The U indicates "this way Up" for correct orientation when the rifle is standing upright, and has nothing to do with US!
The number is stamped on the left side of the barrel:
Attachment 42805
And on the forestock:
Attachment 42810
And on the buttstock:
Attachment 42818
And on the backsight:
Attachment 42819
If you remove the plate with the lever,
Attachment 42809
you can see that the number is also on the block!
Attachment 42808
So I am pretty sure that the number is 5501.
By driving a .429 soft-lead bullet (from my revolver chambered in 44 Henry Rimfire – but that’s another story) through the bore – nice and tight from breech to muzzle, without the horrible looseness over the last inch or so that indicates a bell-mouthed muzzle, I was able to use the bench micrometer (with fiducial indicator) to measure the bore as:
Groove diameter 0.428”
Bore diameter 0.415” (very tricky to measure on a 3-grooved barrel)
Nice sharp, shiny grooves 0.006” deep is a healthy condition for a BPCR. If I can manage to make a good photo of the bore I shall publish it here. Until then, just trust me that it is obviously a very low-mileage barrel indeed.
The block mechanism is in an almost-as-new crisp condition:
Attachment 42813 Attachment 42812
The deeply-cut muzzle is in an excellent state.
Attachment 42804
So all in all, the Swiss Pea is ready to go!
Attachment 42802
Unfortunately, the production of .41 Swiss rimfire cases is proceeding rather slowly, and there are competitions almost every weekend from now until mid-June, so you will all have to keep watching this space to see the first shooting results! But I hope it is now clear why I am not going to go the easy route and alter this 100% original rifle to center-fire.
... and even hits the target.
OK, it was only 25 meters. But I forgot my shooting glasses. Shooting with the driving glasses means seeing a sharp target behind a very fuzzy foresight. And no sign of the backsight. About the same sight picture as when firing a shotgun.
So why on earth did I do it?
Because the typical method described elsewhere for fire-forming (anneal neck of case, load with small dose of pistol powder, plug neck, fire) just does not work. The Flobert caps that I use for the rimfire cases drive powder, plug etc out through the barrel without any ignition of the powder. So it had to be a real load with the hefty inertia of a lead bullet. In which case, I thought, I might as well point it at a target.
Afterward, the target looked like this:
Attachment 43554
And the cases like this:
The cases have not yet had a final trim, so the mouths are a bit irregular. The second case from the left was cut to 42mm, as this was the length later used by the Swiss for a centerfire version. However, the chamber neck is long enough to accommodate cases cut to 44mm (the other 4 cases) and still have the mouth clear of the transition cone. This modification allows a good dose of lubricant to be placed between the overpowder wad (milk carton) and the bullet. Seat bullet to appropriate length (roughly lands contact less 1mm) and fire.
I could write: enjoy, because I was delighted when the very first shot out of this 145-year old rifle was the 9 at 9 o'clock, followed by the 8/9 at 11 o'clock. Experience shows that a second load, with formed cases, will be better - especially if I remember to take my shooting glasses!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
JM, I haven't forgotten, and don't want to disappoint you. But it will take some time!
Dear watchers of this space,
I am writing this up in the hope of persuading others to overcome the "you can't shoot it, there's no factory ammo available" mindset and get more old bangers into action. If you can get an obsolete rimfire going again, then obsolete center-fire cartridges are really much less of a problem. Of course, it does take a bit longer...
Therefore, to encourage such lurkers, here is an update on the Swiss Pea:
Attachment 43935
If you compare this 50-meter group with the previous 25-meter group, you can see that the height is about the same. This shows that the rise in POA caused by using the 6 o'clock hold on a target taken back from 25 m to 50 m approximately compensates for the trajectory drop arising from the increased distance.
Sorry, there was a "high-priority interrupt" - actually a fascinating TV program about the Wasa - building history, sinking, discovery, recovery, restoration.
Now, back on topic with a somewhat simpler task!
The horizontal position of the group is about twice as far over to the left as the 25-meter group, matching the doubled distance, so I am confident that the backsight can usefully be drifted over in the dovetail to make an approximate correction before the next session. But the group size needs to be halved (or better) before attempting anything at 100 meters. My acceptance criterion in such cases is "all within the 9 ring" at 50, before proceeding to 100 meters.
The shot holes are amazingly sharp. In fact, looking at the original target it is almost possible to persuade oneself that one can see the triple lobe caused by the rifling. Better grouping will require a proper seating die with a top punch to fit the bullets - the Lee seating die has far too much side play - and using bullets that are better suited to a rifle than the 210 gn heel-type bullets from the BP revolver. 250gn at least, sized and properly seated. 300gn if I can find a mould.
JM, it's still a long way to those tiny groups!
It's inspiration. My efforts lately have been directed at attempting to shoot small and miss small with lead 0.430" projectiles launched from "modern" revolvers out to 100 yards whilst standing on my hind legs. Haven't gone to the rifle range with a long gun in some time!
But the .43 Spanish Remington Lee project is right in front of me at the loading bench. Mostly need a "cookie cutter" for the paper patches. And a shorter drop tube...or longer arms.:madsmile:
I'm still working on the tiny groups, Jmoore!
Now at 50 meters, with reloaded fire-formed cases.
Attachment 44495
It would have been better if I had not taken 3 rifles with ammo etc to the range - but forgotten my shooting glasses! As driving glasses are truly worse than useless for shooting with open sights, I shot without any glasses at all.
Tip for anyone in this situation: hold the blade well down in the backsight "V" or "U". This creates a local narrowing of the field of view and produces a sharper image than if the blade is higher in the gap. Still a poor vision, so I expect to do better with my glasses on the next outing.
The group of 3 smaller shotholes in the black is a test of the Boer carbine, which will be the subject of a separate report. But first I must find my shooting glasses!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Using those crazy stepped shouldered S&B 175gr 7mm projectiles?
I can shoot somewhat with my regular old glasses, but they're getting very crazed.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff031-2.jpg
A year or older photo-they're worse now.
Yet another thing that keeps getting put off. But the shooting glasses stay in the vehicle, so they don't get left behind as much anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Well spotted! They perform excellently in the Boer carbine. And cut very clean holes.
As requested.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
Attachment 44633
Only at 50 meters, but we're getting there. Note the clearly 3-lobed holes resulting from the 3-groove rifling. The unusual target is a normal 8" black behind a 4" cutout in another target mounted back-to-front, to give the same apparent size at 50 meters as a full black would have at 100.
Now for 100 meters!
This is a very good BPCR. A touch of ammo tuning and it should be good for competition.
Attachment 44665
No change of sight setting going from 50 meters to 100 meters, using a 6 o'clock hold in both cases.