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Has anyone pulled the bullets,measured the average charge and reloaded all the cases the exact same and reseated the bullet? If so did you get noticeably better groups?
Also any thoughts on using hornadays 174g BTHP in place of the 147g Russian bullet with the Russian powder reduced of coarse.
There are those that believed if you break the bullet/cartridge seal you would get better groups. It would somewhat reduce the bullet pull...they just touched them with a seating die. I'm not so sure it will make a difference. It is after all, mass loaded military consumable ammo. Accuracy was within demanded standards only. Not necessarily high grade target ammo...
I have pulled bullets/powder on dud rounds and reloaded them in PPY boxer brass. Made no difference in my horrible shooting.:D
In my experience I have found up to 1.5g difference in charge weight, and at least 1g difference in bullets definitely not match grade, no. I've been wondering what if all the charge weights were exact and all original components used, would that improve spam can surplus at all.
Minor variation in powder charge weight, on the order of 1 to 3%, is one of the least critical elements of accurate ammunition. Unless shooting at extreme range with a precision heavy-barrel rifle and match-grade bullets, one can seldom demonstrate any statistically significant difference in grouping between charges metered at plus/minus 1-3% and charges weighed to vary less than 1%.
Those wishing to improve the accuracy of ordinary military ammunition can gain more by selecting uniform bullets and seating them for enhanced concentricity than by weighing powder charges - but such measures are also seldom worth the time and effort.
I weighed 600 147 gr 7.62 bullets once and came out with 55 that were within the swing of the balance beam of 147. That's not too good. I loaded them with all the care I could and couldn't do much better than ball spec. I then put some hastily loaded hunting ammo, 150 SP through the same gun and they were all under a quarter. It showed me without doubt, that the ball ammo just isn't anything but that.
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Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Yes. I had a couple of packs of Norma Russian Match ammo. Good ammo, but I made a check of the maximum possible OAL in Ivan the Terrible, and realized that there was going to be a longish unguided flight before the bullets engaged the rifling. So I pulled down twenty cartridges, weighed the powder to establish the average charge, and reloaded with the bullets seated slightly further out. The results have been posted recently.
Typically, factory ammo seems to be made to CIP tolerances minus an extra tolerance to allow for variations in production. When it is fired in old service rifles that were never made to CIP or SAAMI specifications in the first place, the factory ammo rattles around in what is effectively an oversized chamber for that ammo.
The only milsurp rifles I have that work well with factory-fresh ammo are the US and Swiss ones. All others are more accurate with neck-sized cases fired in the same rifle. And most perform better with flat-base bullets than with boat-tails, because of the typically longer-than-CIP throats.
A guy starts thinking when components are in short supply. Sounds like a bad idea, like the time I tried to figure out a way to make the potato explode at the end of its flight out of my tater mortar well, what used to be my Tater mortar..:ugh:
Thanks, fellas...
Me being me, I gave it a try. Pulled the bullets, measured out 49.0g exactly of the Russian surplus powder. Top target is regular 147g Russian silver tip. The bottom target is the "improved" cartridges. POA was the same for both, was it worth all the work?.... I'd say yes
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:thup:
WarPig1976:
Did the same with some 46/188 7.62x54r ammo. Found that 50gns of whatever powder was used the most accurate. All worthwhile effort IMHO.
Yes, it worked pretty good, I haven't done it since my post but if I was going to shot one of my 54r's in a comp I would. I don't roll my own for this caliber because I have a couple thousand rounds of surplus "went a little nuts buying spam cans". I know people say its not worth it but I don't see how +or- 1 1/2 to 2 grains can't have an effect on POI. The bullets are turds no doubt but having a consistent charge did tighten the group a bit. Plus you can play with seating depth.