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---------- Post added at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------
What does the B marking mean under the serial number ??? and does the NF marking on the barrel mean that it was issued to the Northumberland Fusiliers in Ireland ???
It isn't NF but NP = Nitro Proof. The device above it is a an "armed" arm holding a seax. The whole thing being part of the Proof mark of the Gunmakers Company.Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40
BTW, the Regiment was granted a "Royal" in 1935 becoming the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers which pre-dates this rifle.
BTW2, why a reference to Ireland?
Thanks i had no idea of that . I guess i will never know what country my Savage went to, i think i will have better luck asking the rifle where it has been LOL
The stamps and markings on the barrel are not military. They are commercial proofs to say the rifle was safe for civilians. The B on the buttstock ring is not one I recognize. It could mean anything - or nothing. When I read the question, I thought it was the LB mark for Long Branch. But no, this is a distinct letter. There are whole books on the topic of markings and I don't know all of them. There are people who study bayonets. I'm not one of them.
Thanks , i'm beginning to think it's big great mystery, iv'e been looking all over internet and can't find a good answer for that letter B
The BEC (Baird Equipment Co. - Belfast) spike is relatively rare with only some 75,000 produced (same production quantity as the No.4 MkI cruciform)...
Here are some more markings that may help identify what country it served.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...89640616-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8a6f09d8-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...81f5e55f-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bb46b8c2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ac534c28-1.jpg
i have no idea what the marking on the receiver is , it almost looks like an icecream cone lol. and what looks like a curved L4 on the whrist band.
SVT-40, the double-F on the butt looks like the mark of the Republic of Ireland (Irish Free State)
FF = Fianna Fail
as can be found on my indisputably Irish-owned SMLE
Attachment 43435
The double-F is in the roundel on the receiver ring. See this thread
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ht=Fianna+Fail
Note that on my rifle, just to the lower-left of the E on the knoxform, there is an unclear diagonal mark that looks very similar to the mark on your receiver ring*. I suggest that you remove the handguard and post a photo of any markings to be found on the knoxform of your rifle.
*OK, worked that out now. it's the London "CP" proof mark in both cases (isn't it???)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40
If you post clear photos of ALL the markings you can find, including those underneath the wood, it may tell you! There does indeed appear to be an Irish connection.
That interlocked CP on the breeching up ring is just another commercial proof mark. The FR mark on the butt looks like a commonly used India/Pakistan mark.
So, so far, we've got England, Belfast, Southern Ireland, Northumberland, India and Pakistan. Take your pick really!
Could we just agree that it's been around!
Here is some info I posted some time ago. The pin is clearly seen in above photo just off the thumb.
Here is info on a BEC that I sold recently on Ebay.
Lee Enfield Spike Bayonet BEC No. 4 Mark ll*
Rare BEC made Mark ll* bayonet in a less common Variation No. 4 Mk 1 scabbard with crimped tip. The Baird Engineering Company (BEC) of Belfast, Northern Ireland was set up in August 1941. All BEC bayonets were made with the spike and socket held together by a through pin rather than the usual brazing. This bayonet is marked as shown on pg. 101, The Spirit of the Pike by Graham Priest. It is stamped MARK ll, though it is a MARK ll * by nature of the separate spike and socket. Also from pg. 101, " The view mark of inspector 147 is clearly shown, although the meaning of the "IG" is still unknown". The scabbard is by Sheffield Steel Products (S.S.P.). with a Mazak mouthpiece of the 1942 style shown on pg. 122 of The Spirit of the Pike. The bayonet has a greenish phosphated finish showing minor wear on the edges and more significant loss of finish on the spike from movement in and out of the scabbard. The release functions as it should. The socket is numbered 364. The scabbard is finished with a greenish, paint-like material showing scrapes, though no dents.
Maybe it's just me.......... but if I was a book writer Ralph (- or indeed if I was Graham Priest who privately published the book at a cost of many thousands of £££££'s I hasten to add)), I feel that instead of quoting sections of the book I'd have preferred it if maybe someone seeking this information that was available in book form was informed that, say, all they needed to know AND MORE about these rare items was available in the excellent book 'X-Y-Z' by A-B-C' and so on.
I recall once being phoned up about some querie or another relating to a telescope where man on phone quoted a page number....... To which I replied '....Ah, but look at page XXX and you'll see that.....' to which he replied that he didn't have page XXX because he hadn't actually PURCHASED the little cheap and privately-published-at-great-expense booklet. Oh no! He'd just photocopied a few pages of his friends book!. Strangely, I think his phone line failed following that. Valuable lesson there too. Thereafter, it was published with a glued spine. Open it out to copy and it breaks the glued spine!
As I said earlier....... Maybe it's just me!
So what are you saying? Pete.:clap:
( Don't tell us, our ears may not like the answer.):lol:
Thanks guys for all that info, but i'll just call it my Savage No4 mystery rifle LOL if it would have been sent to India wouldn't it have that ishapore screw installed ???
i have removed the hand guards and have not found any markings of any kind under there
There is no agreement on what the 'B' is for, other than it appears on a great many Savage ones.
There was a survey thread about Savage ones at Survey of Savage #4 serial number ranges
From data I have collected to date, the "B" first appears in the 36C block.
It's a London (Worshipful Company of Gunmakers) "Definitive" Proof mark and it's not CP, it's GP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Oops!
I'm not so sure about that Beery.......... Surely it is CP as in Commercial Proof, no?
Beerhunter's on the money. From themselves themselves (so to speak)... http://www.gunmakers.org.uk/proofhouse.html
So there is a big possiblitity it has served the Brits :super: i was realy hoping it was :cool:
It was made for the British.Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40
The English Gunmakers Company Proof marks show that it was sold by the government into the British Gun Trade where it was proofed before onward sale. The Government did not need to proof it before sale to the trade because the Government is exempt from the Gun Barrel Proof Act.
You see quite a few B stamped Savage action here in NZ, I have assumed that it means a replacement action.
The action/body was never available as a replacement part in New Zealand. It was known as 'the master component' and while it's identified in the parts list was not available from Ordnance. It was in order to prevent someone obtaining all the parts and making up a rifle. The same applied in the UK and Australia buit apparently NOT in Canada! say, time and time again. The parts list was a list of component parts and NOT a list of AVAILABLE parts