British Signal Pistols

I have in my collection two signal pistols. From the research that I have done so far: the one on the left is a Pistol, Signal No.2 Mk.5 and the one on the right is a Pistol, Signal No.1 Mk.5.

The No.2 Mk.5 obviously has a shorter barrel and no extractor. It also has a small round stud on the let side. Various people on the www have stated that this is for attaching the pistol, to a port in an aircraft or an armoured vehicle. This strikes me as being nonsense because, having fired No.1 Mk.5s umpteen times in British service, I am sure that that small stud would be ripped off by the recoil in no time flat. (Take a look at the very much more substantial pair of lugs on a No.4 Mk.1 .15inch pistol.)

I'm coming to the conclusion that the stud may be for locating a a barrel extension.

Any comments are welcome.

I have just had it confirmed that the stud is indeed for locating a barrel extension for use with longer length cartridges.

It was for a barrel extension but as I recall, this was for Naval use for line throwing. We used to see them at our Base Workshop in Singapore, off the RN ships and they were painted a light grey. They also had a handle fitted to the longer barrel so that you could guide where the line went. We also had a couple at Warminster too

I thought the ones for armoured use were very much larger around the barrel and very wide in the breech?

In the Army we only used to see the little one on the right. Forget the official designation but Beery is probably right, it was the No2 Mk4 and we also had a big Webley 1.5" signal piustol with lugs around the barrel and a locking catch. Over complicated for what a signal pistol really needs to be BUT, on the plus side. it used Webley .455" Mk6 grips which was handy if you happened to have a Webley Mk6 - which I did at the time.

The little No2 'tin-plate' signal pistol was always known to all and sundry as 'the Berridge' signal pistol. I didn't know it then, but it was so called after the pressed steel company that made zillions of them. The peoblem with them was that the BA screw threads on the side plates would strip if you put more than about .001foot/pound of torque on the screws. You COULD ring punch them but......... anyway! Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that some of the trigger mechanism parts such as the hammer and mainsprings etc etc were interchangeable with the little 2" mortar which we called 'section artillery'

Also notorious for missing serial numbers. I mean even more notorious than Fazakerley Stens, Sterling SMG's and No4's. So you'll often find these with the lost number type engraved into the left hand side frame such as SA80A xxxx

Peter, I was once told that the flare pistols with the locking lugs on the muzzle end were originally WWII air force issue and were used on the bombers. The story I was told was that the lugs fitted into a female coupling/flare port of the fuselage near the wireless operator's position.

The lugs were used for locating in aircraft and some early AFV's but none when I was in service. BUT, we still had to fit the sliding locking bars and lugs etc etc

Peter's description of a long barrel 1inch pistol with added support handle is a design developed and used by the firm Schumerley. It fires a rocket launched line thrower.

The RAF used Webley 1.5 inch flare pistols with square lug (apparently taken from land service?) and screw interupted thread designs per attached photo. The screw interupted barrel fits in the spring loaded aircraft mount shown to the upper right of the photo. The upper left pistol has a remote firing solenoid mount attached to the pistol.

There they are, the great big ones I was talking about. You couldn't carry one comfortably as infantry and they won't break in armoured service...

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Originally Posted by breakeyp

Peter's description of a long barrel 1inch pistol with added support handle is a design developed and used by the firm Schumerley.

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Forgive me but that famous British company, believe it or not, (Originally Dutch I believe.) is called Schermuly. (Now part of Pains-Wessex.)

Now I need to find one of those barrel extensions. :D

Interesting conversation with another Armourer of the era about the big 1.5" signal pistol. The redundant locking mechanism that ensured that the pistol was fully locked into the aircraft that I complained about was also interlocked with the main break-action lock. This same longitudinal lock ensured that the pistol was locked fully into the aircraft or AFV and at the same time, fully locked closed. Apparently, the last aircraft it was used in were the little Auster AOP's used in Malaya and the big Sunderlands. Buth low flying so no need for an atmospheric lock mechanism.

LAST used in the UK during the 70's when those left in Ordnance were converted to riot guns to fire rubber bullets and tear gas. The barrels were extended and Sten gun type butts welded on.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

LAST used in the UK during the 70's when those left in Ordnance were converted to riot guns to fire rubber bullets and tear gas. The barrels were extended and Sten gun type butts welded on.

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I have one on my list of stuff to be acquired at some point in the future Peter.

BTW, has anyone come cross the barrel extension for my short- barrelled version. Alternatively good pictures or drawings, from which I could get a reproduction made.

(As this is post is probably being intercepted by NSA and passed to GCHQ, I am a bony fido collector with a Firearm Certificate.)

Found out yesterday that the current signal pistol in use with the RAF is being replaced this year with signal flares.

What is the current issue signal pistol in use with the RAF, currently?

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

Its the No.4 Mk1. Being phased out due to the unreliable ammo. For every 10 flares there is one mis fire.

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

Found out yesterday that the current signal pistol in use with the RAF is being replaced this year with signal flares.

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I have a spare slot for one but as I understand it the MoD insist that surplus firearms are exported.