Well, 5.56 ammo shortages pose a problem, my Standard Products is an answer

The stupid $1 a round prices for 5.56 have led me back to my Sandard Products M-1 for a patrol carbine!

I had switched to my recent M4gery build with red dot scope for a patrol carbine for my high country security contractor duties. I have a fixed amount of good 5.56 ammo (about 860 rounds of M193 LC), but I am hesitant to shoot much in practice because of my limited supply, and my refusal to pay $1 a round. I am set up to load 5.56 with brass, primers, dies, and powder, but NO 55 grain FMJ BT projectiles to found ANYWHERE! When my shift was almost all dark hours during the winter, it wasn't too much of an issue, as I had little opportunity to practice

With the long daylight now, though, I have half a shift in the woods when I could be sharpening (or even maintaining) my rifle skills. Also, with more daylight, the red dot is not as necessary.

The answer is to revert back to the old Standard Products again. I have about 1500 rounds of factory, and components to load another 1500 rounds. With that ammo stash, I can afford to regularly practice with the SP M1 as much as I care too.

Last month I switched to a Rock Island 1911A1 .45 ACP to replace my S&W as a duty sidearm. They should get along well together! It's funny, because my dad on Iwo Jima carried a 1911A1 along with his Inland M1 Carbine, too. Seventy years later, his son repeats his history! They kept him alive, they should do the same for me!

Does your employer give any guidance on their expectations for a long gun? I know an M1 is less gun than an AR, but if you are obliged to pay your own ammo, would they have any objection?

No guidance at all. Any California legal long gun. I don't have a .308, so its the AR or the Carbine. It is an agreement between the utility we contract protection for and the local office of our company. Because we are in the National Forest, a long gun in the car is OK. Beside the terrorists I patrol for, we also potentially have Mexican cartel drug planters, and mountain lion to deal with. I ran into drug planters last summer, which I backed off and notified USFS LEO. I regularly run into cougar. Several nights ago, I got into a staring match with a large cougar, who was 10 feet from my F150, and only reluctantly vacating the narrow one lane road so I could pass! It was several miles from the powerhouse I was checking in the bottom of a canyon, so I did not send it to "kitty heaven." If they are menacing around the gates I have to dismount to unlock, they will be terminated. I am not getting paid to be kitty kibbles!

When does the law about detachable magazines take effect? That will take out the AR and Carbine.
You'll be back to a lever action. Maybe time I break out my Winchester 30-30, or Savage 45-70.

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

law about detachable magazines

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Just go back up to the M1 rifle...or tanker, even in .308...w/cartridge belt and .45. Then your dad would approve.

People would pay to get that close to a mountain lion. You might want to rent your passenger seat out to the tourists! It could pay for a new rifle.

All joking aside, a one-man wilderness patrol with two recognizable threats should 'carry enough gun'. At close range either will work for short engagements. However, I am partial to the AR over the M1, simply on its more advanced ballistics. Considering the value of your hide, I would carry as much 5.56 as I felt I needed and keep scrounging for more. Hell! If there wasn't a border in the way, I might try to help a brother out.

In the meantime, stay safe and keep your top knot.

Don't get too upset just yet. In my area (Cleveland/Akron), ammo and reloading supplies are rebounding. Ammo is slowly falling in price. Last week i found .225 for about $.85 per and .308 for just over a dollar per. Not back to pre-panic prices, but improving. The only bad shortage now is .22 LR. Stores are limiting quantities and prices are between double and triple. At least they are starting to appear.
It would be interesting to hear what is happening around the U.S.

B

I have a 12 gauge pump with ghost rings, which is good for bear and mountain lion with 1 oz slugs, but not enough for 100 yard work with 2 legged goblins. That's why I settled on 5.56 and 30 carbine. I've taken 200 pound deer at 100 yards with the carbine. One heart lung shot with 110 R-P JSP and it was DRT.

Here's the duty set up and the old guy that wears it!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fb3be2d5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsa591-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...beb2a723-1.jpg

I just hope you never really need that vest.

Maybe someday swap that RIA for an Ed Brown or Wilson, fine pistols.

Where's the old guy??... All I see is a Lean,Mean,Fightin Machine....:)
Stay safe.....

I'm going to state something I undoubtedly will take a beating for, won't be the first...or the last, how much practice do you need? As Maple Leaf Eh said, it's your hide, take the best for the job, your previous posts had you picking the AR for a reason, nothing changed that reason but a shortage of .556. Why not practice with .22 or whatever else you have plenty of reserve, and if you normally practice with say 100 rds, practice with (10), I doubt you'll get that rusty. It's a fact I don't agree with but my department ( and others) used to qualify every 3 months, (50) rds a session. After 9/11 our SRT was shooting up a much greater portion of department ammo and that forced us to qualify twice a year, now it's down to once a year and only (30) rounds a session! Doesn't give me as much confidence in the officer responding to an in-progress life threatening position, how about you? Update: I just spoke with a fellow Sgt. who is still working, he says they have increased to 3-4 times a year, but ammo is very hard to find in bulk, in fact they can't get sufficient quantities of .380 at this time.

My department won't provide a rifle but if you choose to carry one it must be AR based and an approved model, I have a RRA LAR-15 . We re-qualified once a year and it involved about (75) rounds (I can't remember exact number), but the department at least provided the ammo. And we always qualified with iron sights, even if you used optical (various) it was always about Murphy's Law. At least the 2-day course for patrol rifle initial qualification was both informative and shall I say fun, the RSO estimates 700-900 rounds are fired depending on a few factors, that wore me out a bit in my late 50's, but it was great training.

I used the 20 rd mag first, reloads were 30's, put down (3) deer in two years ( hit by cars), worked as well as the shotgun in my opinion.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCN0243-1.jpg

There is practice to keep up your skills. And there is shooting just for the enjoyment. Some times they blend together. Round counts for each will vary. Factors could be availability, expense, time, a place to shoot.
Me, I just like to shoot, it's not job related. I buy in bulk whenever I can. Keep X amount of each caliber I shoot on hand, always leaving some for a back up. If I get down to the minimum I have set as a back up and can't find more, then I change to another caliber until more is available. I save the brass and reload when I can (now primers are an issue) to supplement the expense.
Unless you are on the job, it's all fun.

Jim is right on with this. One of the best ways to hone skills during training is to make it fun and memorable. Muscle memory is paramount! In my opinion, and we have hashed this over more than a few time, it's all about sight alignment and trigger control once you have the ergonomics of muscle memory down. One of the .22 AR platform rifles or .22 conversions will give you all of that. The AR would be a much better system for any kind of security work.

Realizing ammo costs are way up that is so true but use what is best and the most accurate and reliable. When I worked for Kern County the only "tactical rifle" authorized was the AR rifle or carbine version. Same as Sarge stated the certification course was two days long and anywhere from 700 to 1000 rounds were required. It was the same for the Glock course but it was three days long. The county supplied the rifle but if you had your own it could be used so long as it met all the departmental guidelines.

There was a time when every deputy had a different type weapon. That all changed when a massive shootout took place with a guy named Robert Courtney happened. Deputies were running out of ammo (due to very poor equipment standards and lack of proper training). Have fun, be safe!

I agree the AR platform is better than an M1 Carbine. Anything I carry, I shoot often and regularly, especially since I work out in the woods. Last time I shot the M4gery, though, I cringed at $1 a round replacement cost (tax or shipping included) and I quit after 20 rounds since I can't reload it at the moment. The carbine I just did 100 rounds tonight shooting off hand at ranges of 25 to 75 yards, with some at 100 yards.

Speaking of reloading and primers...see my new post!

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

Where's the old guy??... All I see is a Lean,Mean,Fightin Machine....
Stay safe.....

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Hahaha! Well, if I was like "filet mingon" when I was a young buck cop back in the day, I guess I am now that I am longer in the tooth, I am like "jerky" - tougher and more seasoned! I read a book once where the protagonist was an older retired cop, and he was telling a young street tough "Don't mess with old men, son! They are too old and getting to the point where they don't care about "correct" They'll just shoot you and get it over with!"

Yup, My favorite,
A young bull and an old bull are on a ridge looking down on field of heffers.
The young bull says "Let's RUN down there and do us one of those heffers"
The old bull says "No lets WALK down and do'em all"

Changing the humorous parody back towards our subject, ammo today is getting harder to find. When will it ease up, no one knows. In the meantime we do what we can to still enjoy of hobby.

Changing back to topic, it was a little weird driving around on duty with the M1 carbine and 1911, realizing that almost 70 years ago, my dad was driving a jeep on Iwo Jima with a 1911 and a carbine! The only thing that would have made it weirder would be if I had the un-messed with Inland instead of the Standard Products mix-master.

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

...ammo today is getting harder to find. When will it ease up, no one knows...

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I knows! Right now. Just came from the local shop. Shelves continue to fill. Prices moderating, too.

I found some Lake City/Federal M193 for $16 a box, down from $19 to $20. A hopeful sign. Still little or no handgun ammo in Nor-Cal. If you find it, it still runs almost $1 a round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Still little or no handgun ammo in Nor-Cal. If you find it, it still runs almost $1 a round.

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Wow, that's more almost twice what .357 and .45 ammo is costing, unless premium "fancy" stuff is purchased in the SE US. Was so happy with the Magtech .357 158gr JSP with which I shot an IHMSA "field pistol" (max target distance 100 yds.) entry last weekend that I purchased a couple more boxes today. And the quantity on the shelf was much more than last week! .22 rimfire is starting to appear regularly. And at last year's prices.

Wow, that is great to hear. Maybe it will get that way here. Even an ammo only store in Sacramento, "Ammo Depot," that usually has everything conceivable has zilch on their shelves. I have no idea how they are staying in business, as they have nothing to sell. 22 LR is also non-existant in California. Might as well be looking for a dodo bird....

I suspect that they do a brisk business just after the delivery truck arrives. That's what the Wally world vultures have been doing. (I suspect some of these folks are the ones you see at gun shows with tables of insanely priced rounds.) This morning, whilst buying some scaffolding, I noted that the local gun/pawn shop of goodness had the following non-all-inclusive selection of .223:

PMC 55gr fmj US$8.99
Am Eagle psuedo M193 $10.99
Lake City fancy psuedo M193 $14.99
plus some others with soft points, etc. All 20rd boxes. No particular quantity limits for purchase.

If the ammo isn't coming to your area, could it be that the rest of the country's firearms industry isn't all that enamoured of Kalifornicationstan?

Just got back from the range and I have an overwhelming feeling of guilt. Shot some .22 and some 7.62+39 the whole time I'm thinking I can't replace this which I can't because I doubt we'll ever see $3.19 box of 20 for +39 and the .22 I refuse to pay these gouging prices.
This sucks!! The silver lining is prices will have to drop supply and demand dictate it. All the morons who ran out an bought 17,761 of .22 and AR trainer will be flooding the market when they realize they wasted a ton of cash in a panic and they only shot the gun once when they first bought it.

Our local Wally World has a 1 brick limit on 22's and a 3 box limit on any other type ammo so you'd think that would hinder the buzzards somewhat but I doubt it slows them down much. Not a single round of 22lr or 223 that I saw my last trip, or much of anything else ammo wise, except for 19 boxes of 6.8 Rem. SPC. I was surprised to see they even stocked such an oddball caliber. Figure I'm the only one in the area with one. Good news is a friend that sets up at local gun shows phoned last night to say the ammo and component dealers were back in full force with a good supply of items, including 22lr and primers. Finally got those 209's I been after for months.:dancingbanana:

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

All the morons who ran out an bought 17,761 of .22

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I just limit myself to 10,000 round of .22 at a time, IF it's the same lot. But that was before the feeding frenzy. Down to that much in toto for all brands and lots of .22 now. If I don't shoot I suck. If I do shoot, I'm poor. But money is easier than skill to obtain...

Morons like us need our stockpiles. It's the other morons.

Just think about this:Ammo prices started going up about 8 yrs ago when XXXXX was getting elected. Will it ever go down to even close to what it was??????????????????
Look at the gas prices;Now that the gas co's have it up to $3+ a gallon since Katrina,When was the last time you seen it below $3 a gal????????????
Just something to think about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shooting is/has gotten more exspensive,but even at the going prices it's still FUN,ENJOY it while you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GK

In the past, I only reloaded cowboy calibers for CAS like 44-40, etc. and 30 Carbine which I shoot a lot. I can load: 30-30, 38 S&W, 44 mag and Special, 30 carbine, 223, and 45 ACP. Still not set up for 9mm or 380. Needles to say, I have started loading for ALL of the above...

OK, it has started to get political.

Time to close the thread.