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I purchased this F.F&S.L chromed no 4 bayonet some time ago and came across a chromed scabbard at a local gunshow this weekend until today I was thinking this was a "fantacy piece". Were these actually cerimonial use pieces at some point or did I just happen to find the bayos fantacy cousin?
The colour party in Canadian units used chrome bayonets. Some had a ball on the point and some didn't. I was also told by a Queen's Own Rifle Sgt that they used them for dress bayonets.
The Legion Halls in Ontario are equipped with chrome No.4 rifles and the chrome spikes with the ball on the tip. I delivered many thousands of excellent quality Italian mfg. .303 blanks back in the 1990's that I'd guess they're still using for funeral ceremonies etc.
Do I need to keep an eye out for a white frog to complete the ensamble?
Before you invest in a white frog, I'd invest in getting that bayonet and scabbard bead blasted again to remove the existing chrome, get down to the decent bare metal again, under that rust pitting and get it re-chromed.
On the other hand and taking heed of the phrase that you can't polish xxxx, you could just get a decent looking bayonet that isn't already rusty and ask a good quality chroming works to set about it from scratch. Just my pragmatic take on things
Always the armourer...but he has a point.
Was already concidering that as the bayonet itself is a bit rough.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
We used to have plateing outfits seemingly on every corner but alas those days are gone. If it can be done for a reasonable cost it might just happen.
The so-called "F.F&S.L bayonet" was made by a regular contract maker of this No.4MkII* bayonet, F.F&S.L stands for Fred Fisher & Sons Ltd. who made the socket, not the complete bayonet.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY
The best - and only reason as far as I can see - to remove the chrome from a Canadian parade bayonet would be to find the name of the contractor who made it. The marks were often lightly stamped and would be almost impossible to read under the chrome IF they still exist. Many of the bayonets with sockets marked by contractors are very crudely machined to leave the bayonet makers extra metal to remove when making the finished bayonets and the makers did not always completely remove the machining marks in the interest of getting the complete bayonet out the door in a hurry for the war effort. I have a Lewisham Engineering bayonet with a F.F.&S.L. socket that shows no sign of any machining marks removed at all. This one appears to have had the machinist marks removed, probably by the Canadians before chroming what they considered a substandard bayonet. After all, Longbranch made only the MkII bayonet, not the MkII* with welded-on blade. Post WW2, they didn't need any MkII* bayonets and found an economical use for them.
Personally, I would leave it as is. the bayonet with matching scabbard (check the frog stud for a Canadian Property Mark - the "C" and "Broad Arrow") are collectable as is, even in less than stellar condition. I rarely disagree with anything Peter says, but in this case I am afraid I do, at least partially. As is with original Canadian chroming it is collectable, but removed and then replaced, it will be little better than junk from Ed "Big Daddy" Roth's work shop - it will belong with chromed Nazi helmets used in films in the 1960s.
To be honest gew8805, nobody knows whether this is Canadian chroming and therefore particularly collectable or even interesting! It could be, well....., just anyone with a cheap chroming facility chroming! And rubbish chroming at that. And on that basis, it's just.........., er....... what's the word I am looking for. Anyway, you get my drift. Better just start again
Chromings got some nasty s*** in it which is why it costs a fortune to do, only the Indians really chrome large scale now due to their 'liberal' health and safety rules, just look at a Royal Enfield! Oh and the quality is s*** too. I think pretty much every middle eastern state must have chromed Lee Enfields in their time and then varnished the wood to 'Finish it off'.
There are some quality chrome platers in the car restoration business. A better option in my opinion is nickel plating. I had a load of swords done for the Army nickel plated some years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
:madsmile: With your experience Peter, I can't really disagree with you. And, I think I know the word you are looking for.....
Both my chromed No4 bayo and it's scabbard show Canadian property marks but they are barely visible under the chrome - which is worn on the blade.....
While on the subject of chroming gew and all...... exactly what IS the difference between Chrome plate and Nickel - or come to that, silver or even gold? Apart from the obvious material of course.
I ask because when the SA80 first came on stream, we did a few SA80 bayonets with chrome blades and it really was a bit of a disaster but the nickel was a far superior finish and seemed to last forever whereas the chromes blades soon started to almost 'weep' in the way they corroded. I did speak to one of the metallurgists who said that it wasn't a metallurgy 'problem' as such but more a question for a chemist - which I ain't!
I kept a couple of the chromed ones greased up and still have one that's perfect. But like I said, it's greased up and not open to the atmosphere
Peter, that's a good question and one that I am certainly not qualified to answer. Like you I prefer the nickel plating, mostly for the sake of appearance and seeming durability. Chrome has a shrieking brilliance that looks far better on a car bumper than it does on a firearm, bayonet or knife. Nickel has a less bright appearance - more mellow - and does seem to protect metal at least as well if not better. Why chrome plating doesn't last as long? I have no idea but having always been the owner of "older" (read "used") automobiles, I can attest to the fact that it does not last unless cared for in the same manner as paint - polish and wax. Even then? Not so much.
I used to send a Bottle of Wine up with batches of 20 SLR Bayonets. to a German Civvy at 4 Armoured Workshops in Germany. when I was stationed with the Para's. Karl used to NICKLE plate them for me. We used them then screwed to plaques, through the rivet holes of the grips. As presentation pieces for members leaving the Battalion. Nicely varnished plaque, with a Para cap badge & a brass engraved plate for the lucky recipient! I have seen MANY CHROMED Bayonets over the years, & agree with GEW's comment. On how they seem to 'Scream' at you! Nickel is more classy & slightly understated. Just like us Brit's!...:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler