Unusual Type 38 carbine.

Picked up an odd one this weekend. At first I thought it was a Type 38 rifle that had been converted to a carbine. Then I got it home, disassembled it, and found that that it was not.
Here's the deal. Nagoya Type 38 carbine, series 5. According to online info, apparently there was no Nagoya Type 38 RIFLE. But there was the Nagoya Type 38 series 5 CARBINE. This carbine has a rifle rear sight. It also sports what appears to be a converted rifle stock, but guess what? The number on the inside of the stock matches the inventory number on the bottom of the receiver, along with the smaller parts. The finger grooves are long, as on the rifle, but they taper at the end going towards the muzzle. No upper handguard, no middle barrel band. Almost has a Carcano-ish profile to it. Bayonet lug is retained. Full mum and dust cover. Dust cover and bolt do not match.
Entire rifle stock is finished in dark reddish brown shellac. Sling swivel on bottom of buttstock has been filled with wood. No provision for a sling at all on this piece.
I first thought Chinese conversion, but the more I got to looking at it, I dismissed that. Also, this does not seem 'bubbafied

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Oops, hit 'submit'. Anyway, this does not look like bubba. It is, in fact, very unusual. I have pics on my phone, but do not know how to post pics from my phone. I really would like for you guys to see this one, and get your thoughts on it. Thanks!

Very interesting. Pictures forthcoming?

Yeah, if I can find out how to post pics from my phone. Definitely think this one bears taking a look at.

I'm going to refrain from making useful comments until we see some pics...

If anyone could give some pointers on how to post pics from an IPhone, it would be much appreciated.

Are you able to plug your phone into a computer and transfer the files over?

Unfortunately not. Computer is fried, don't know when I'll be getting a new one.

Here are the photos of Anzac15's rifle:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...39c62f52-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d513214e-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...08efeb1c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f4527153-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9f3a8bc0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...37d8d16e-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...89777dbb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1a72e756-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...abed0a4a-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9f30d569-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8f05eca7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9880e0ba-1.jpg

It is an odd rifle at that. The condition of the stock reminds me of something that may have been in the hands of the Chinese militia. China unloaded tons of wretched T38s and T99s to US importers about 20 years ago.

Notice the finger grooves, they taper going towards the muzzle. It's an odd one alright.

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

This one isn't import marked, either.

Could it be a cut down rifle? The stock grooves and rear sight both seem to point in that direction.

That's the thing..as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, there was not a Nagoya series 5 T38 rifle, yet this is a rifle stock (apparently) and the inventory number matches the inventory number on the bottom of the receiver. All small parts match as well..and that is a rifle front band/bayonet lug, and not a carbine version. But this IS a carbine..19 inch barrel and all.

---------- Post added at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

And also I've never seen finger grooves on a T38 taper towards the muzzle like this one does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anzac15

And also I've never seen finger grooves on a T38 taper towards the muzzle like this one does.

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That could be explained by recontouring the forestock. Just moved the front band assembly back. Barrel cut down and front sight repositioned. Not Bubba, but his clever brother Cletus, who happens to know his way around a lathe.

Not me, I'd never use such a dark stain. But I did shorten an SMLE once, moving the tapered front sight seat back by placing the barreled action in a Heald OD grinder. The short headstock was perfect for the job. Milled a new slot for the foresight lock and then cut the barrel to length. After that, shortened the forestock and inletted the nose cap, barrel tensioning plunger, etc.

Methinks it's a "fantasy" piece.

I'm not even sure that the front sight is Jap manufactured. I'm beginning to go along with seabot's suggestion that it may be a Chinese configuration...

The front sight is from an early (pre-1930s) Type 38 rifle. The rest of the rifle baffles me - I reckon its either Bubba, Chinese or Thai....

I thought it was an early 38 sight at first, too. But this sight isn't dovetailed like all other 38 sights I've seen.

You say the gun is a series 5 but none of your pictures show the series and serial numbers. Until you show these it could just be a cut down type 38 rifle.

Yep, need to get those on. But it is definitely a Nagoya Series 5.

The front band is from a Japanese type-38 rifle, it is numbered to the receiver and stock which is a cut down Japanese rifle stock. As was stated before, it has a proper rifle rear sight. It should have a hand guard. A good picture of the left side of the receiver including any symbols, numbers and proof marks will settle the question if this rifles origins. Maybe a Cavalry rifle converted by Nagoya during ww2 or post war Chinese conversion. Be sure to check out the chamber before firing, many of these were converted to 7.62 x 39 or 8mm x 57. Check out the outside of the receiver chamber for welded holes [sabotaged barrels]. Hope this helps.

Chuck