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In 1962, at age sixteen, I purchased my first M1903A1 in Albuquerque. They have been my passion to this day ! I have a question to start off my exploration - Were some of the national match 1903A1 models drilled and tapped for the Lyman M48 receiver sight ? If not, how does it affect the value if all other characteristics are all correct ? Secondly, were star gauge barrels ever installed on non-national match rifles ? I respectfully await any information on this subject.
Post the serial, it might be listed in the SRS list.
The Model 1903 and 1903A1 NM rifles were not offered for sale fitted with the Lyman 48 sight in the DCM brochures of the day, but that is not to say that you couldn't order one that way. In the same brochure offering the rifles you could purchase the Lyman 48 sight which came with the proper size tap. The Model B National Match rifle did come drilled and tapped for the Lyman 48.
For a while you could order the 1903 Service Rifle, and for a small fee have the barrel star gaged. There was also the Special Target which came fitted with a star gaged barrel, but did not have the polishing and fitting of the NM rifles. The NRA Sporter also came with a star gaged barrel of a slightly heavier contour than that of the 1903 rifle. Also, the star gaged barrel could be ordered from the DCM.
Examine the inletting cut in the stock for the sight. They were machine cut at Springfield, and any done later usually show the lack of skill in the inletting. In my opinion it does affect the value of the NM rifle if the sight was fitted after purchase.
I agree with Johnny ... I've seen some "professionally-fitted" Lyman sights on M1903s and some others that were real hack jobs.
The serial number is 1352904 (Springfield Armory) Excuse my ignorance, but what is the SRS ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
Your serial number is not listed. SRS is Springfield Research Service, and is information gathered from several sources on U.S. military weapons. Much of the information came from the National Archives where information on serial numbers was recorded. SRS would look through their information to see if your serial number was listed, and for a fee provide you with the information they had.
I assume that my number not being listed by SRS means that it is not a national match rifle ? It is, however, fitted with a 1939 star guage barrel - could any M1903A1 be fitted with such a barrel ? Secondly, is the M1903A1 # 1481030 listed ?
1481030 was sold as a receiver (not a complete rifle) in December, 1936.
If your rifle is not listed on SRS, it would mean is that the rifle was not sold to an NRA member or person participating at Camp Perry in the National Matches. It could have been sold to a member of the military, for example. Of course, it would have to be certified that your rifle had true National Match characteristics.
Serial number 1481030 is listed as being sold as a receiver. Up until WWII you could order through the NRA/DCM every part for the 1903 Springfield, including the receiver. It could be ordered as a standard service receiver or a NM receiver. Same goes for the barrels, as they could be ordered as a NM barrel.
Just because the serial number is not listed in SRS does not mean it is not a National Match. It could have been a military team rifle that left the military by other means. From the difference in date of the receiver and the barrel it could be a rebuild, but it would have to have the other modifications common to the NM rifles.
---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 AM ----------
Hey Rick, didn't mean to post over you. I must have been typing when you posted.
I own an SRS documented M1903A1 NM rifles from 1932....SN is 1402XXX. It has been drilled and tapped for the Lyman sight and the holes have very small screws inserted. The screw heads do not appear to have ever been removed. The stock has NOT been cut for the sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
Does the SRS documentation mention being drilled and tapped?
Evidently many of the NM M1903 were drilled and tapped by whom I do not know. There was a question as to whether a rifle so altered fit the category of “*** issued” for the National Matches. To clarify the position the following was inserted in the DCM Notes in the American Rifleman for 1940. There was also, at one time a question of the reversed safety and the headless cocking piece. I believe that eventually, the headless cocking piece was disallowed.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...psbec8b68a.jpg
No. The letter and copy of the receipt only indicate that the rifle was sold as an M1903A1 NM rifle and gives the name/address of the purchaser. I have read...and I apologize for not remembering the source...that the NM rifle could be ordered with the Lyman rear sight holes drilled and tapped, but installation of the sight was up to the owner. Also on such rifles, the stock was NOT relieved for the sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
Just found this: M1903 Springfield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Footnote is: Norell, James O.E. (2003). "U.S. M1903A1 Rifles". American Rifleman (National Rifle Association) 151 (July): 38–41.
"M1903 NM (1921–1940)— selected rifles produced at Springfield Armory for National Match shooting competition. Production barrels were measured with star-gauges, and those meeting specified tolerances were stamped with an asterisk shaped star on the muzzle crown. These barrels were fitted to selected receivers with hand-fitted and polished parts. The bolt was left unblued while the receiver and barrel were finished with a black Parkerizing process. Some bolts have the safety direction reversed to prevent it from striking the nose of a right-handed shooter, and those made from 1924 to 1929 have the knurled cocking piece removed to decrease lock time. Early rifles used the type S stock until the type C stock became standard in 1929. Rifles made for sale to NRA members (priced at $40.44) were drilled and tapped for a Lyman 48 receiver sight and had either a type B (or NB) stock with no grasping grooves and a noticeable drop at the heel for a long pistol grip, or a special National Match stock with a high comb and pistol grip. Total production was 28,907. Most were issued to service teams and 25,377 were reconditioned at Springfield armory after one year of match use. Reconditioned rifles have a large gas-escape port drilled into the left side of the receiver.[26]"
The information on the hole being drilled in the left side of the receiver on reconditioned rifles in not correct. It may have happened on some, but I have a 1926 rifle that was a USCG team rifle which was returned to Springfield in 1930, rebuilt into a 1903A1 NM and sold at the 1931 National Matches.
You take Wikipedia entries with a big grain of salt. I don't know if this is the same entry, but I looked at another on the M1903 and it had numerous errors.
That is why I looked for a reference or a footnote. Guess I'd have to get that issue of Am. Rifleman. Then...it too, could be incorrect, but written nearer to when the rifles were being produced. I think Poyner notes in his book, that NM rifles could have been had with the recvr sight holes. But it is Poyner's book. Again...must cross reference/verify. Does Brophy make any mention of this? Anyone have any SA literature from the 1930's? Ads, order forms, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian
On my SRS Lettered 1932 NM rifle, the recvr hole filler screws have the same finish as the rest of the rifle and the slots look to be undisturbed...an indication that they have never been removed.
In post #3 I referenced NRA/DCM brochures from the early 1920's to 1940, and what was offered in them. They covered everything from targets to NM rifles for sale.
nevermind. I answered this question earlier.
Brophy's book indicates that NM rifles were not d&t'ed with the exception of style "B". Style "B" NM's were d&T'ed for the 48 but the stock wasn't cut for it.
Sorry if I'm repeating info that's already been posted but it was asked what Brophy wrote on the subject.
Also, FWIW: Page 90 of Clark Campbell's book, The '03 Era, shows a drawing (not a photo) of a style "NB" rifle, d&t'ed for the Lyman 48 and w/o the stock cut.