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When you pick up a "new" rifle or handgun how clean is clean enough for you?
I have given up after hours of cleaning to get a "clean" patch out of all my Milsurp weapons. Now I do my cleaning routine 5x after shooting and call the weapon clean.
Anybody ever get one SPOTLESS?
Yes, I used to. Now that I'm out of the military I know no one is going to inspect my rifles...so clean and oiled is fine.
"I cleaned it 5 times already":lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
- get serious, this is real cleaning:
Before
Attachment 44771
After
Attachment 44772
Of course, you don't have that much work every time:D
Attachment 44773 Attachment 44774
If you can see the rifling reflected in the wall of the chamber, then that's about as good as you can get.
Yep.......... You knew that the first three or four times you took your rifle back to the Training Sergeants (it HAD to go via them to go back into the Armoury incidentally) it would fail miserably. It'd even almost fail when he did eventually let it pass and even a pass was through gritted teeth with a few encouraging words such as '.......... if you ever present me with such a filthy wrethched sack of pure unadulterated pig shxx to pass as clean and fit enough to go back into my pristine armoury I'll .............' and off they'd go on and on and on.
L1A1's were the worst as they wanted you to lay all the parts out and if the gas plug or the piston or breech block face wasn't like new, off it'd go over his shoulder into the grass followed by the same verbal diarhorrea spewing out.
While on ops, being REME, we had regular range days to keep us up to speed and someone told me that one of the mouthy training Sergeants called 'Piggy' Newton (or was it 'Boggy' Marsh..... but they were both the same and BOTH from Castlemain to boot! Castlemain must breed asshxxxs) was manning target number 12 so being on lane 9 and an Armourer with a pocketfull of loose ammo, I swung my rifle over to shoot my loose rounds down lane 12 and sent about 10 rounds thudding over and skimming the bank, sending clouds of shale and red laterite rock and dust all over him and the other nearby butt markers...... He was jumping up and down like a frog on fire.......... He didn't need a radio, believe me. And poor old Alan Sandford, an RAAOC Nasho blanket stacker who WAS shooting on lane 12 got an earfull to die for!
Being about 100 degrees or so and a zillion percent humidity, the butt markers would throw their jackets and webbing onto the bank and mark the targets just wearing their boots and strides. Of course, the red dust and shale just stuck to them like shxx to a blanket. So they'd all come ambling back to the firing point looking like red dwarfs!
Not so happy times but fun when you're just 20 or so! Oh yes, where were we.........? When is clean enough? Well, in my experience, if you were a Nasho (a National Serviceman which 60-70 percent of the battalion were) then it was NEVER clean enough
I'm one that goes for spotless ......but I cheat a little. I have a corner in the store where I run an Outers foul out set up. I clean the powder out with solvent , brush , patches and rod after every outing . I then let her soak till I go to work Monday . I then put it on the foul out and let it do the work . A lot of copper and crud comes out of that " clean patch " bore . It will work 8 hours a day for several days , if needed, while I'll only put in a couple of minutes every hour or so maintaining the set up between work tasks. At night it is soaking with a gentle solvent wipe.
Some guns , like 1917s , '03s or the subguns , go on easy. Browning beltfeds have to have the bbl removed . Bars , carbines and Garands have to have the gas port sealed with tape or a rubber pad or plug which requires complete stripping . No problem with the BARs or carbines that have free turning gas nuts ( ones without are not done ) , but the Garands are not done every time . Usually just once a year or so.
Chris
Patrick, cutting new rifling and a recrown DO NOT count as cleaning!!! ;)
---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------
I will say, I tried the boiling water technic on a Mosin Nagant a few weeks back to see what the hub bub was about. After the first pour big chunks of gunk did come out on the patch. I could scrub that bore with sandpaper and I still don't think it will shine!!
An understandable mistake, but the rifling was not recut!Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
It was cleaned. It may have pits and scratches, but they are clean pits and scratches!
And, of course, they don't always come up as well as that!
The recrowning was unavoidable - to ensure that the bullets actually hit the target and didn't arrive sideways.
I knew that, was being a wise arsz..:) How on earth did you get the rifling to shine Patrick? It appears that barrel saw saltwater or something...
emmagee, I have seen homemade versions of your set up "online". Apparently Otis stopped selling the foul out set? Anyway, would it shine up say a RC Mauser bore or a Mosin fresh from a crate guns that have been abused before we get our hands on 'em?
Very, very slowly.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Maybe someone plugged the barrel and then left the rifle on the beach for a couple of years? I really don't know, but I prefer rifles like this to the ones that have the shine on the outside and the rust inside!Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
My dear sir, don't be shy, it is ARSE. And although I often find US spelling preferable to the UK version, I do wish Americans would stop kicking a-s-s. What have the poor donkeys done to deserve that?
Many years ago I bought a Model 1895 Winchester in .30 Army locally. The barrel still had most of it's original rust blue, and the receiver had about 20% of it's niter blue, but the bore was a disaster except for the last couple of inches where the rifling was sharp with just a little shine. The remainder of the bore was solid rust with just a hint of the rifling. After soaking and brushing for about a week with little results, I started scrubbing the bore with 1/0 steel wool. Even after all the soaking, red rust dust was coming out of the bore. After several of the steel wool treatments the rifling was well defined but still rough, but the old gun would then shoot into about 12" at 100 yards. I wouldn't recommend 1/0 steel wool for your prize rifles, but it worked on that one.
I have never gone too crazy trying to clean a new gun however I do believe no matter how clean you think any gun is old or new run a patch with Hoppes No9 thru it and you will think you should start over again.
That stuff is so good but it makes cleaning very frustrating.
It will remove all lead ( lead out ) and all copper ( cop out ) it can get to. You have to remove the powder residue first so the chemicals can get to the fouling. If you have stack of layers like a dagwood sandwitch , you'll have to remove them one at a time so the chemicals can get to it . I like it because you are freed up to do other things and you are not doing 100s of rod passes up and down the bbl . You can get a bore "perfectly " clean with rod and patch , but an hour on the cleaner will still coat the rod with copper and make a beliver out of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Chris
And then there's the trusty British "Christmas Tree" bore brushes. I've been amazed many times with the results from scrubbing fouled-rusted barrels with them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
Very unusual. More common is a bore that is usable apart from the last couple of inches, which are rusted and bell-mouthed. You were lucky with that one!
I knew I had a better one!
Attachment 44824
Martin-Henry MkIV after removing the "yakolene". It stank when I bought it, but it was well-preserved beneath the fossilized gunge!
Having the bore bead blasted and chrome lined is NOT cleaning Patrick...:madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
I thoroughly agree! In this case, I cleaned it initially in the shop. I found it by chance, sitting next to one that looked better, with excellent markings. In fact, the markings were suspiciously good and unworn, and when I studied the markings under a watchmaker's eyeglass, everything was exactly even in width and depth - in a way that no original markings ever are. Be warned, the Khyber Pass specialists have adapted printed-circuit board etching techniques to etching copies of genuine markings onto fake actions! It would have fooled me in a photo - in an online auction, for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
I therefore took another look at the scruffy object sitting next to the Khyber Pass Special. It was weeping oil out of the wood, the bore was black, and when I cocked it and fired, there was a tired sort of "click". The whole rifle was gunged up solid and smelt rancid. In fact, it stank, but what I could see under the eyeglass looked genuine.
Being an eternal optimist who reckons he can fix most things, apart from worn-away rifling, I haggled with the dealer, and agreed the price that I would pay for the rifle as it was at that moment, on the condition that I would be allowed to sit quietly in a corner, clean the thing as far as I wished, and then decide. Fixing the price beforehand was important, as I did not want to spend my time on increasing the value of his stock!
So I sat in a corner of the shop and cleaned and cleaned - enough to see that the bore seemed usable underneath the muck. Bought it. took it home, and spent a happy weekend leaching out the yakolene from the wood, removing more from the bore, and dismantling the action, which was packed solid with the muck and had to be washed out in turpentine substitute. The blackness of the bore was a century of dust accumulated on the hardened yakolene. The underlying metal was as you have just seen - superb. And the action now goes bang instead of click.
The result was a beautiful MH, that was featured on the forum a couple of years ago..
But going by photos on an online auction, one would have ignored it as a wreck!
I found a virtually unidentifiable Vickers machine gun barrel at High Wood on the Somme while out with Roger Payne many years ago. What caught my eye was the fact that it was a lightweight early Mk1 type barrel. I took it back to work and rammed a cleaning rod down the bore and it went into some old grease. The bore cleaned up like BRAND NEW. I kid you not! The outside was a rusted out sack of junk but the chamber and bore were MINT.
I put it on display with our Vickers guns and would invite trainees/recruits to pass it round - and then look down the bore. I've seen SA80's with worse bores than that Vickers barrel
Sometimes it surprises one how perfect an old pipe will come out. Some you look down are goners and then after a brush and oil...mint again!
When i get a new surplus rifle i clean the barrel with hot water then with solvent. I finish up using a new bore snake and turtle wax chrome polish. I put a teaspoon of polish in the chamber and pull the snake threw 10 times. A dark bore will clean up in 6-10 cycles.
That's interesting Mike, chrome polish..
Yes, I'll be trying that out at a later time. I have a 94 in 30-30 that needs some help like that.