Printable View
This isn't a military article but I need some help.
I have my Grandfathers Harley Davidson kidney belt from the early 30's. They were used to hold your insides together before anybody thought shocks would maybe be a good thing to put on a motorcycle!! It's dried and cracking, the straps are broken. I've tried commercial conditioners, they don't work. Any advice??
Most of the guys here will recommend Pickard's leather treatment I think, it will restore the leather to supple and not promote decay.
Ordered and on the way!! Thank you..
My local leather shop here, who also recondition saddles etc etc say that they just dunk the old stuff in a lanolin tank. I have taken stuff there and it seems to work. All my leather bondage gear is now soft and supple
I'm sorry Jim, I have to disagree. Pecards is one of the worst things you can put on leather, it contains petroleum distillates which will damage leather. Peter's recommendation of lanolin is good and personally I will recommend nothing but pure neatsfoot oil, which has been used for hundreds of years and still is, both in tanning and preserving leather. WarPig, be careful of neatsfoot oil compound which is commonly available, it, like Pecards, contains petroleum products and will damage leather so, like Pecards, you do not want it. Use the pure neatsfoot oil only. Pure is harder to find and more expensive but is worth it in the long run.
Too bad that your grandfather and everyone since allowed the leather in the kidney belt to dry out, it is permanently damaged now and all that can be done is lightly apply natural products - lanolin or neatsfoot oil - in small doses until you are satisfied with the flexibility - not softness - of the leather. Do this after cleaning with a good quality saddle soap. Applying anything to a dirty item will only do more damage. When the belt is almost dry from the cleaning, apply the oil to the flesh side (that's the rough side) and you will have done all you can. After the treatment, do what should have been done for the last 80 years; keep it clean and at a comfortable temperature and in a consistent humidity of 60 - 70% and do not allow it to sit in direct sunlight for extended periods. A well ventilated room is essential. If you box it up for storage, be sure to avoid acidic paper and store in the above temperature/humidity conditions.
Remember to everything in stages, don't drown the leather when you apply the oil, it will clog the dried out pores and cells causing them to swell in their damaged state and further damage the item.
Remember, keep Pecards, mink oil and other goops like snow seal for your work boots and other user grade items, they all do fine for those things but should not be used on items you want to preserve and pass on to others who come after you.
Thanks goodness we seem to finally be getting away from the claims that used to be made for Pecards, that "it is used by the Smithsonian Institution" and other museums - it most certainly is not. If you want to know what real museums and antique curators/collectors actually do with leather to be preserved see:
http://www.nps.gov/history/museum/pu...pendix%20S.pdf
Many thanks Gew8805 for the first comprehensive paper I have ever seen on museum-level conservation of leather. OK, so maybe I live a sheltered existence, but when I have the chance I converse with curators about their methods, and this paper confirms what I had received as verbal advice - namely that leather inevitably degenerates, and all you can do is make it happen as slowly as possible. There just is no way of bringing it back to new condition, so that it can be subjected to normal use.
In other words, if you are an active shooter, like me, actively using old leather artefacts is a no-no, as it just hastens their destruction. And all the oils and greases in the world will not help. I enjoy shooting with (up to) 200-year old guns, provided the wood and metal are still fit for the job, but the slings, cases etc. are all recent or replica items that you just have to view as "long-term consumable" items that may last decades, but not centuries. I have, for instance, an original Rifle Brigade (black leather) holster for the Webley, but the revolver "lives" in a modern canvas case and the original holster is stored out of the light.
Many thanks fellas,
I'm a working man so the Pecards will get used, I'll google neatsfoot and order some too, Many thanks!!
My grandmother kept the belt in her closet for decades nobody was aware of it. When she passed low and behold there it was, I knew right away what it was and couldn't believe it. I have pictures of Pop wearing that belt at 19yrs old sitting on his brand new 1937 knuckle head. Both my Grandparents were Deaf mutes, he would shift gears by feel only!! I bet he beat that bike like it owned him money...LoL... Thanks again..
Peter, it's good to know I'm not the only one wearing a gimp mask!!....
my 03 sling made in 1917 is as new. I use waxoyl. I use it on my leather jacket, shoes and the seats in my MB cars. I mix the product 50/50 with oil paint thinner. put it in a hand sprayer, spray it on and walk away. The thinner evaporates leaving a thin film of wax. my tools, cars, motorcycles are rust free. I clean my guns with it after shooting. my guns are perfect. steel, wood and leather. It also lubricates.
Not an expert but I have had good results with anhydrous lanolin which can be purchased at any pharmacy/apothacary in one pound jars. Great for chapped hands as well.
I guess you are using their Professional Rubber and Vinyl Dressing , right? Interesting, neither it (nor anything else they make) is recommended for leather. Do they make something I'm missing?
Paint thinner? :yikes:
On leather? Poor leather.... :crying:
Everyone has different ways of doing things. Good luck.
Patrick, I'm glad you found that info from the NPS useful.
Have used the Pecards to treat dried out Model 1907 slings. Use it sparingly in repeated coats, and don't use heat to speed up the process. When leather passes a certain point you cannot restore any strength to the leather, but the slings are now supple enough to display on period rifles.
Neetsfoot Oil takes the prize for being the worst thing you can put on old leather.
Now you show up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
Far from it, the worst thing for old leather is a lack of knowledge and a "get it done fast and/or simply" attitude. Proper preservation is a hard-earned thing and ham-handed application of anything - even neatsfoot oil - will damage leather. Over the last 40 years of work with leather, new and old, I've seen that too many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
When applied incorrectly, there is nothing that is good. Neatsfoot oil will beat petroleum any day, that's why I avoid Pecards and all other second-rate products on anything collectable. Even lightly applied, overtime Pecards clogs the pores and does the damage. Pecards is fine to use on user grade items that you will use and, when worn out you will throw away, but not something you want to preserve for your own pleasure and that of generations to come. But, Johnny, we've had this discussion before....
Properly applied, neatsfoot oil restores leathers flexibility and especially it's needed moisture content better than anything else, grease doesn't. And keep this in mind - that is why neatsfoot oil is used in the tanning process for all vegetable tanned leathers.
I have been using Pecards for almost 40 years, so speak with some experience. I have a Randall knife sheath that was treated with Neatsfoot oil almost exactly 40 years ago by my late father. It was a Xmas gift I gave him with his name on the blade. Just like his boots, he gave the Randall sheath a regular dose of Neatsfoot oil and the sheath is coming apart today. Neatsfoot oil does make old leather softer because it breaks the fibers down, and then it falls apart.
The first thing I used on old leather was Mink Oil, and I have slings today that were treated with Mink Oil that develop a white substance on them from time to time. It wipes right off, but always comes back. If the Pecards has worked for the last 30/40 years, I see no reason to change now. The leather today is in much better condition than when I first applied it, so I will continue to use and recommend it. If you like 10W30 motor oil, that is your business, but I will continue to use what I know works.
Any comments about the lanolin treatment Johnny? I heard of it being used to preserve some leather artefacts from the Mary Rose. Mind you, they'd bee under the sea and undisturbed for a couple of hundred years and as they admit, they are just preserving what's left as opposed to ever using them
Johnny, again, we have had this discussion before. Here is one of our discussions from the past:
Leather preservation
As said then, the knife sheaths shown are two very differently treated scabbards of equal quality. The one your father treated with neatsfoot oil was obviously used and carried in the field quite a bit. In other words, it has been heavily used but preserved correctly with neatsfoot oil - your Dad used your gift and preserved it lovingly, he was proud of it and I am sure was appreciative - but he used it. Nothing wrong with that, he benefited from it as he should have. The scabbard shows wear and tear from use and that is good, that is what it was made for. The one that looks new has never been carried in the field, as a matter of fact it shows no use whatsoever. It is a safe queen and that's fine - it didn't need neatsfoot oil or Pecards. If the used one had been treated with Pecards it would look the same as it does now or worse. The abraded corners and edges and the cracked strap would look the same, that damage was caused by use, not neatsfoot oil. True, the neatsfoot oil may have darkened the leather somewhat, but exposure to sunlight, rain, sweat, heat, cold and half a dozen other things also caused it. Safe queens don't wear out as quickly as a used example does.
Sorry, I do not mean to offend, you have two very nice examples, but to me, your father's knife is more valuable due to his use and the obvious care and attention he gave it. It shows his use and that is something to be proud of, it makes it part of your family's story. He gave it care and as such, it has a story to tell. It far outweighs the unused example unless you only value the monetary value of an object.
I used the Neatsfoot oil on the belt and WOW what a difference.Brought that thing back to life! Thanks gew8805! The reason I chose not to use Pecards was due to it being a paste but, I did use it on my new shitkickers for water proofing and break in. I even bought some Lanolin to try, used it on a pair of pig skin gloves but I didn't care for it as it never seemed to soak in.
I would say in my case neatsfoot was the best option and that each treatment has its place. Thanks again for all the input fellers....
I also used several liberal coats and a plastic bag to restore the dried and shrunken leather handle on a US number 3 knife. Swelled the disks back up to a tight fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Glad it worked for you WarPig1976.
The thing to remember is that, no matter what you choose to use, neatsfoot oil, Pecards, mink oil, etc., etc., use the minimum to do the job. Overdoing - drowning the leather - will cause damage regardless of what you use.
I still think that the best thing to use is nothing. Leather items that are kept inside at a regular humidity and temperature at which you yourself feel comfortable and out of direct sunlight will last nearly forever without observable deterioration. We can see that in Johnny Pepper's scabbard on the left. Use of a good leather item is not wrong, it is what the item was intended for and you should enjoy it, but it does put the leather in a different ball park requiring proper care if you want it to give good service and last. Johnny's knife on the right demonstrates that. Well worn is beautiful in it's own way, especially if the history of it's use means something to you. Johnny's Father took good care of his cherished knife and it's scabbard.
What about all the sweat that's soaked into my leather whips and bondage gear...........?
Lanolin, it'll get that whip nice and supple........ So I've heard.
What about all the sweat that's soaked into my leather whips and bondage gear...........?
Now that's funny.!!! Thanks for the giggle Peter....
Bondage gear? Well Peter, best try a good cleaning with saddle soap followed by ...... Oh my, never mind. :runaway:
Now there is a direction I did not see this thread going. Talk about a tangent. Oh my!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Every days a school day........