Question re C1A1

Good morning:
I recently acquired a C1A1, with sniper scope, and have a question about it. The receiver is serial numbered to the rear assembly, but the breech block is not serial numbered, instead being electropencil engraved with a star type figure over a P. The star is similar to what we see on the DCRA rifles. Is that how the FN C1s were numbered? There isn't anything in the Stevens book on North American FALs about how the rifles were numbered. This is a 6L series, not one of the later 8Ls the OPP picked up. The rifle has the correct scope mount and scope, and also has a larger rear aperture sight that on the 8L's.

Also picked up a training dummy, which according to Stevens were for paratrooper training.

Some pictures.

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Thx

Ed

That's the first ever training dummy I've seen. Very nice. Yes, para training, but they actually used the old EX series rifles all welded up. I know, they issued me one. The 6L is very nice, the sight is indeed for the C2 and you should have the smaller one graduated to 600. Good luck finding one...maybe Wilkie will have one in Ontario. The upper and lower are numbered together and the breech blocks were kept in an ammunition can or some other equally unidentifiable method of storage. Even if they had been numbered, we would have balloxed it up.(Please forgive us Peter) The marking you see would be one of the proof marks we had. Un-numbered lowers were held as a spare part that could be replaced by the weapon tech and re-numbered to the upper. Very nice catch. Not many of the series, short of 8L made it out...

I have the C1/C1A1 sight. US $ 125 plus shipping. Exc condition. Your C2 sight is worth a fair bit as well. Regards.

I looked in Stevens' book, then rooted around in a box of various parts I have that I've stashed over the years. I found this sight--it is unmarked, but looks like the one in the book. It seems to be stuck on the 5 for some reason. Might need oiling or something. Is this the correct sight?

Thx

Ed

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That's the right one. You'll have to use the S spring and screws...

Do you happen to know why it would be sticking? I don't want to force it--is there some little trick to getting them to click from stop to stop, or is it just likely gummed up with old oil?

Cheers

Ed

Possibly just oil but I think if you install it in the rifle, you'll find it'll turn. It's very tight if in good shape. Try putting it in a vise gently to hold the base and turn it. It should be just fine...It doesn't look rusted...try some penetrating oil...

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Originally Posted by boltaction

Good morning:
I recently acquired a C1A1, with sniper scope, and have a question about it. The receiver is serial numbered to the rear assembly, but the breech block is not serial numbered, instead being electropencil engraved with a star type figure over a P. The star is similar to what we see on the DCRA rifles. Is that how the FN C1s were numbered? There isn't anything in the Stevens book on North American FALs about how the rifles were numbered. This is a 6L series, not one of the later 8Ls the OPP picked up. The rifle has the correct scope mount and scope, and also has a larger rear aperture sight that on the 8L's.

Also picked up a training dummy, which according to Stevens were for paratrooper training.

Some pictures.

Attachment 45044Attachment 45045Attachment 45046Attachment 45047Attachment 45048Attachment 45049Attachment 45050Attachment 45052Attachment 45053Attachment 45051

Thx

Ed

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Well done, what a superb rifle and in excellent condition.... very envious ... The C1 really is the holy grail of production inch pattern collecting, your rifle must be a very rare beast in any condition, never mind your lovely example, how does she shoot.

I don't suppose you want to sell her and ship to the UK in a crate marked "tractor Parts "do you?:beerchug: Whats the worst that could happen!

Interesting to see the breech block carrier doesn't have the grooves cut to carry the sand and, er........, grit away. Wsa this a feature of the C1? This feature actually worked - and worked well too!

A link to my other baby, the C1 in C2 configuration I posted a couple of years ago.

Ed

Custom order C1A1?

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

the breech block carrier doesn't have the grooves cut to carry the sand

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This was standard on ours Peter. It took us until we went to Australia before we saw the grooves. I understand them, it's just that we didn't seem to need them for the most part. Our warfare doctrine was mostly open country...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

The upper and lower are numbered together and the breech blocks were kept in an ammunition can or some other equally unidentifiable method of storage. Even if they had been numbered, we would have balloxed it up.(Please forgive us Peter)

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At my unit (Canadian Scottish Regiment) the breech blocks were stored similarly but they were marked to match the rifle's serial number. I don't remember exactly how they were marked but I do remember that we had to recite the rifle's serial number when drawing the breech blocks from the weapons vault. Don't remember my C1's serial number anymore except that it was a '58.

Some times we had pigeon holes to match the rifle number. That was for accountability... I don't recall breech blocks marked with a serial number...

I just checked my other C1, the one listed in the thread link above. It is also a 6L series, with a C2 heavy barrel and bipod. It is apparently a civilian or DCRA sale item from the days when regular mortals were allowed to own lethal equipment like FNs, cars, chainsaws, air compressors, and Bee Gee recordings. Of course, come to think of it, we can own all that stuff now except FNs. Anyway, the breech block on it is not numbered either, but since it was a "civilian" sale I thought maybe that was a different thing. It's been so many years since I owned my ex OPP 8L series rifle that I can't remember if its block was numbered or not.

Looking at the sniper unit again, it has a higher front sight than seems normal, hiding under that little protective plastic dome. Stevens book doesn't really say what regular sights are on these scoped rifle; iit talks at length about the reinforced action cover designed to take the scope mount, but not much about the iron sights. Neat rifles, these FNs. I wish I was allowed to actually shoot them.

Ed

The front sight shouldn't need to be higher for the C2 sight. 200 was 200 regardless of weapon. Same parts. They aren't a sniper rifle either, they're a marksman's rifle. I was issued one in 1975 while guarding peace talks overseas...they're good but not that good. I'd say the C2 sight was just what came to hand.

You're right, of course. It was used for more accurate fire than the standard, but was not a sniper rifle. Sorry for the sloppiness in terminology.

Ed

200 is 200? I believe the C1/C1A1 sight is in yards, while the C2A1 sight is in meters.

Possible Ralf, but we were always taught the rifle was in meters also. We always discussed things in meters. I know the big one was marked in meters like you say. The RANGES were built in yards though.

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Originally Posted by RCEMERalf

200 is 200? I believe the C1/C1A1 sight is in yards, while the C2A1 sight is in meters.

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C1 sight is in yards, C2 sight is in metres.

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Originally Posted by TCBF

C1 sight is in yards, C2 sight is in metres.

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RE-read what I wrote...I didn't disagree.

The rear C1 and C2 sights are common around here. I have both lying around my shop, along with new lower receivers, and some new internal parts.
When the 8L C1's came into the country I received one that like new condition and was just test fired in the UK.
Sold it for three times what I paid for it and along with a new H&K Sub Cal kit I regret that move. I have lots of other FN's but haven't ran across another one.

The sub cal combination was fun too. I used to keep one on hand when in field camps. I'd often disappear with my rifle for some grouse or rabbits. Highly illegal but...the other thing was the sub cal on full auto was a blast. Most people never had the chance to try that part out, but with my FN always converted to auto(sorry Peter) I shot the .22 that way lots...sure went through a lot of ammo that way.

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Originally Posted by Albayo

The rear C1 and C2 sights are common around here. I have both lying around my shop,

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Do you have a C1 rear sight for sale or know someone that does?
fbos2@hotmail.com
Thanks

I think I have a couple of the complete ones C1 and C2 in my shop, and a number of spare parts. I have some new in the wrap C1 lower frames.