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I'm thinking about trading for this RIA but am new to the 1903 platform. All ive seen are these pics of it. It is supposed to have come from a guy whos grandfather used it during WW1. Can anyone tell me anything from the photos? I'm considering trading a S&W 629 for it. Thanks
It has a replacement barrel and started out as a M1903 in 30-03. Chances are excellent that the story of the grandfather using it in WWI is just that - a story. The rifle is very nice looking. The barrel is a replacement, as I said - the receiver dates to about 1905 or so. Are there any markings on the left side of the stock? The stock is either a no-stock bolt or one stock bolt, which dates to 1913 or before. Also look for any other markings on the bolt (especially the safety lug - look on all sides - located about halfway up the bolt body. Also, look for either a 1/8" or 1/4" "S" on the foretip of the stock (the "wedge" you see when looking down the muzzle).
I have no idea what the going value of a S&W 629 is. I would need to see more detailed pictures and information on the rifle before giving you an idea as to value. It could run anywhere from $800-2000 depending on the details.t he rifle may be an "old rebuild from pre-WWI.
Thanks for the reply. The pistol alone is worth about 800. I'm setting up a meeting to inspect the rifle for this weekend. The guy who has it said he got it from a professor at his collage who told him his grandfather had carried it while he was in the military and had passed it down. Any thing else i should look for when i see it? again, thanks for your time. Leo
Again, look on the left side - if there is a CN stamp with a date in a "box" the stock may be original and the rifle is probably worth at least $800, maybe considerably more. If there is a combination letter/numbers stamped on the safety lug, it would depend on what it was if it was original to the rifle. The rifle appears to have been blued, rather than Parkerized, which would also date the parts to WWI or before.
Obviously, look at the bore, although it may need a good cleaning.
Keep us posted what you find. A gain, take the "veteran" story with a grain of salt. As we say here, "Buy the gun, not the story".
The 629 is not worth nearly what this 1903 is but if both parties are happy then it's a fair trade. It's easy to gauge your 629 value if you look at gunbroker. The important part is you can get a 629 any day of the week. Not so much with this fine 1903.
I would agree (although, again, it would be nice to have more info). I think you're pretty safe in getting a trade. Would like to see more pictures/information if and when you get the rifle.
Well guys, the deal fell thru. Thanks to all for the info. Leo
How much cash did the guy want for it straight across, or how much cash did he want on top of the trade if he wanted the trade at all?
He wanted a total of $1500.00
That'd be just OK of a price to my way of thinking except for one thing. It looks like there is a metal strip on the right side and passing under the rear barrel band that is meant to re-attach the forearm that had been cut off. How it was done was the worst possible way to have done it. I'd sell a bunch of stuff to come up with the money if it weren't for that. As it is, only the very best repair done by an experienced antique furniture or stock repairman could pretty much hide it. There's probably another such repair on the other side of the stock. Bummer! Heck, it's a great looking rifle other than that!.
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Given the "mixed" nature of the rifle, I think $1500 was at the upper limit. However, I would have had to take a closer look to tell if it was truly worth that amount. If a legitimate pre-WWI overhaul, it might have been worth that - but no more. If it was "seeded" with a few post-WWI or WWII parts, the value would drop quickly.
Be glad the deal fell thru. The 1903 with the 47K serial number is the infamous LOW NUMBERED receiver. They were subsequently withdrawn from service because of the brittle receiver that sometimes failed due to improper heat treatment. Any RIA below 280,000 and SA 03 below 800,000 is in the same class. I have an RIA (230K range) in the same condition the one you showed and I have had it for 40 years and never shot it. As a collectable they are fine but not for a shooter. Why take a chance that the receiver would let go.
I agree it is a low-numbered M1903, but a lot of LN M1903s are attractive and would be worth having just to take out an admire.
Just for the record, the "cutoff" between RIA LN and HN M1903s was 285,507.
On pages 67 & 68 of Nick Farris' book; Rock Island Rifle Model 1903, it is stated that of the 16,000 receivers between approximately 269506 and 285506, there were some 5,846 receivers that were destroyed that had the old Single heat treatment. The remaining serial numbers in this range had apparently Not been heat treated and were, therefore, held back to receive a newly developed Double heat treatment. Each piece was tested by scleroscope after hardening and all pieces measuring below 55 and above 70 were rejected. Rock Island reported that most receivers passed the test and were eventually assembled to finished rifles. Many receivers below 285506 were successfully (double) heat treated. Ferris further states that "It is widely thought that "low number" receivers, which received only single heat treatment, are those below serial number 285507. However, it is likely that receivers numbered above approximately serial number 269506 are safe, inasmuch as receivers between that number and serial number 285507 were either scrapped or tested and double heat-treated."
I'm finally receiving today a Rock Island 1903 whose serial number is 268563. It has a barrel date of 7-18. John Beard, who has seen pictures of it has said that he'll have to look at better pictures, but initial examination of the finish of the receiver would suggest that it has been given a double heat treatment. He also said that the barrel appears to be original to the receiver. I'll post some good photo's soon on another thread after I receive the rifle this evening.
Something else interesting about this rifle is the receiver style letters. On page 69 of his book, Ferris states that prior to receiver serial number 268693 the style of lettering on the receiver changed to block letters without serifs. Since receiver serial number 268563 has serifs, it would suggest that the change over from serif to block letters took place between 268563 and 268693. Of course there is somewhat of an overlap in this transition, but the style of lettering on my rifle's receiver is noteworthy.
I agree that is what I do with mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian