No4 draws angle.

From Peter L's article, "and the similarly downward angle of the draws is 74 degrees*"

Im about to make a draws out of Engish Ash (best wood I have) so I will be cutting a block with an accurate chop saw.

Also normally the end grain faces the draws, but I think I read somewhere that for best results use a non grain face?

Has anyone done the copper block mod on a no4 aka the no1 mk3* for target work? I take it its not an as issued thing though?

Tempted to go that way....easy to shim until nicely tight.

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Originally Posted by ssj

From Peter L's article, "and the similarly downward angle of the draws is 74 degrees*"

Im about to make a draws out of Engish Ash (best wood I have) so I will be cutting a block with an accurate chop saw.

Also normally the end grain faces the draws, but I think I read somewhere that for best results use a non grain face?

Has anyone done the copper block mod on a no4 aka the no1 mk3* for target work? I take it its not an as issued thing though?

Tempted to go that way....easy to shim until nicely tight.

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My 2/52 no4 mk2 appears to be 75 on the draws and 81 deg on the wrist using the reciever base line as the datum. Is the forend wood angle different?

Just GENTLY cut the draws to suit the rifle with a sharp chisel when you are fitting the fore-end! All this talk about angles of this that and the other is just complicating things - as you'll see from the two different angles computed above!

And yes, the 'with the grain' wood facing the draws is better than end grain any day!

Last rifle i tried to restore, i chose a bad patch : wood grain was almost perpendicular to the fore end. Results: when i used the chisel, wood broke along the grain withouth follow the draws angle. In addition keep in mind that end grain takes moisture from air and offers the worst strenght and conistency a pice of lumber can offer. In order to fit the draws correctly i had to use a rasp instead of a chisel and i had to work many hours. Using a chisel is fast and accurate. I slightly force the fore end to the rifle when i reassemle it so the sear lugs will cut away very little wood at a time.

Thanks, Im going to make a pine patch I think to start with to practice....I was thinking of a rasp....im in no hurry.....I also have some very hard bamboo flooring I could use instead of the ash....its not good to chisel but sands/rasps/files fine.

It occurs to me that a scaper would be the best tool for removing very small amounts of wood (as well as metal.) I have made them from old files, usually by surface grinding the teeth away and then shaping the front end to suit. (The surface grinding part sn't required, it just looks prettier and definitively establishes the usage change.) Won't dig in and is easily resharpened.

Very very interesting jmoore. What bevel angle do you grind at the front edge?

I made up a couple of steel gauges so that when I glue & dowel the wood in for the new draws I use the gauges to cut the new inserts to the correct profile then finish off to suit the rifle.

I have been using Ash for the new draws & also turn up small dowels using the same ash and also dowel them in place.

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Originally Posted by bow

What bevel angle do you grind at the front edge?

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Usually eyeball to about 90° but sometimes 5 or ten degrees off ninety helps. Depends on the material. I've "scraped in" worn L42a1 pads using a very small tool. You can peel off half tenths in localized spots without trouble when working with steel.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Usually eyeball to about 90° but sometimes 5 or ten degrees off ninety helps. Depends on the material. I've "scraped in" worn L42a1 pads using a very small tool. You can peel off half tenths in localized spots without trouble when working with steel.

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Only scraper i know are built to ssmooth wood.. Could you post a photo of your scrapers, file iron made??

---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

I can't understand how you built them because i have in mind scraper plane or card scraper. Scraper plane has an high sitting angle and due to its dimensions cannot be used in the draws area. The same thing applies to card scraper. Have the scraper an hook with the bevel built in, something like a gillette razor blade?

Bow..... Can I most respectfully and humbly suggest that you abide by the old maxim of 'keep it simple stupid? You could use a million and one ways to do what is a relatively simple job that relatively simple Armourers have been doing for over 100 years. But in my very limited experience in doing one or two of these relatively simple tasks, just simple hand tools is/are all you need. And by that, I mean a saw, some glue and a sharp chisel

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Originally Posted by bow

Could you post a photo of your scrapers, file iron made??

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As Peter Laidler says: keep it simple! These are basically just chisels that won't do more than peel off a thin layer. Hence: "scraper". Still used for building precision machines as a final "dialing in" tool.

OT but here's some related links:

"Real" machine ways scraping tools (Way too big and expensive for the job under discussion!):
http://andersonscraper.com/Anderson-Hand-Scrapers.php

And what the pros use for dialing in lathes, mills, grinders, etc.:

http://www.dapra.com/biax/scrapers/index.html

Back on subject:

A few random ones, large, smallish, and with contours to suit particular jobs, but easily changed. (The whole nose can be considered the cutting edge, but usually only a small portion is actively shaving. Again, the nose shape depends on the job.) For draws cutting a straight nose would be best as opposed to these steel scraping examples.:

I don't quite follow the shy away from end grain theory as it would seem to take the impact better than long grain which has the tendency to compress under stress, hence wood working mallets strike with end grain faces.
Wee bit off topic, I recently saw a custom end grain floor (like glued up blocks of square parque end grain ) it felt like you were walking on marble. Enough floor talk {*~*}
Cheers

End grain is harder , nothing to say. But...have you ever tried to glue in two end grain piece of wood?? you can easili separate them using your fingers. If you apply glue long grain with long grain you obtain the must powerful Junction, and we must glue the wood patch to fore end. Generally speacking,fore end has longitudinal grain on his lenght.
In addition to that above , remeber that when a woodworker want to season a board, he will apply Vinavil on end grain and only on end grain surfaceses due to the pattern of long and tight wood cells: end grain is the place where moisture enter the wood.
I think that sear lugs tranfere to wood of draws only a vibration and not Mike Tyson fist so, it must be hard but it must be consistent say afetr day, whatever was the weather like.

I have installed Brass draws with brass screws and use shim to align the barrel down the forestock.

Copper recoil plates as far as I am aware was an Aussie thing on the Mk III Lithgows and as we did not produce any No.4's they were never fitted to them unless through the FTR process in WWII Muffett or Bruce in Oz may be able to enlighten us with more information on the matter.