Guys I'm looking for a Piling swivel for a 1915 SMLE No1 Mk3 and screw
I understand it must be pre 1918 as the later ones will be too thick to fit in.
Anyone got one spare ?
Cheers
Steve
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Guys I'm looking for a Piling swivel for a 1915 SMLE No1 Mk3 and screw
I understand it must be pre 1918 as the later ones will be too thick to fit in.
Anyone got one spare ?
Cheers
Steve
Never heard of later piling swivels being too thick to fit but the later No4 swivel screws have a different thread to the SMLEs so don't really fit (but can be forced)
The Piling swivel on the right is the type you want but be careful if you want originality, there are a lot of made up piling swivels out there that are cut sling swivels.
The Piling swivel on the left is the later (1920s on) type & is narrower, but fits all earlier rifles.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/paw0-1.jpg
Although No.4s were never issued with piling swivels and soi it seems a little academic.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thBatt
That i realize Beerhunter but as the op mentioned both a piling swivel & a screw & that something did not fit the earlier rifles, as i dont believe it's the piling swivel, i was thinking they must have been trying a No4 swivel screw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
Stephen
Phil Rose down in the New Forest will have lots of these. He has a large stock of parts for all .303s, as well as complete rifles, and doesn't charge excessively.
PM me and I'll send you his details.
Rob
Looking at the one on the right, it seems to hang to the left?? Compared to the strap swivels on my SMLE that seem to be the same offset but hang to the left? Does tst make sence?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thBatt
I'm afraid it doesn't make sense to me.
I've got a bunch of them here that are too thick to fit. I have to grind them down when fitting them.
The swivels are meant to be off set to right veiwing the rifle from above (my pic is from below, so appears to the left) this was to allow the use of the Volley sights(fitted lhs) to be used without the sling obscuring the intended target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenwfarrell
Interesting, i have genuine piling swivels fitted to every rifle in my collection that has the provision to fit one, plus some spares, i have never come across one that did not fit, sure some are a little tight but i would expect that, plus a couple that are "floppy" but thats due to wear, never had to modify one to fit though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk VII
Photo please.
I just received my MkIII* and I need a piling swivel AND screw for it. Anyone have a spare that they'd be happy to sell and post to me in Australia?
As per the second post in this thread, it's the one on the right in the picture that is offset.
Try DS Solutions here in the UK they should be able to help, good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueAussie
I thought that the 111* did away with all that extra fruit, (like Volley sights, magazine cut-offs, adjustable rear-sights, etc..), to the point that, whilst the forging for the nose-cap still had the "bump", they didn't bother milling the slot or drilling / tapping for the screw.
It probably gets a bit murky because the 111* was a "minor variant" rather than a new "Mark". Post WW1, there was a bit of "tidying" going on wherein 111* rifles were "reverted" to "111" .
There are rifles floating about that have severe identity crisis issues; originally Mk111, "upgraded to 111* and so stamped (not always very precisely) and then "reverted" and the "*" struck out. Obviously, it is a bit tricky to "retro-fit' a magazine cut-off into a 111* body that has never had the slot and axis hole machined in it.
Yes, there are "late" (but pre-WW2) Lithgow rifles with slotted bodies, but there is probably no way they were freshly made that way. Most likely made a decade or more earlier and set aside because of some minor imperfection, then as the storm-clouds gathered, "corrected", suitably littered with stamps and fitted up as complete rifles.
The piling swivels which are encountered which have a lug which is too thick for a SMLE I believe are from P14 or M17 rifles. I bought several some years ago and I noticed they were overall slightly larger and did not have any acceptance marks which my known SMLE/MLE piling swivels have. I have never owned a P14 or M17 so I have never tested out my theory.
Lithgow produced the MkIII with cutoff into 1941 & tend to come with dated cutoff plates such as MA'41, the piling swivel was never part of the MkIII* change, in fact the only change that was the MkIII* was the cutoff slot was omitted, the changes such as the volley sights etc were all made to the MkIII and were introduced in Part 1 of the same 1916 LoC that introduced the MkIII* which was introduced in Part 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
Attachment 105927
Hope you realize it was ordinarily removed or omitted in service!
. . . This is the lower sling swivel. And this
Is the upper sling swivel, whose use you will see,
When you are given your slings. And this is the piling swivel,
Which in your case you have not got. The branches
Hold in the gardens their silent, eloquent gestures,
Which in our case we have not got. . .
from Naming of Parts by Henry Reed, 1942
Piling Arms seems to have gone out of fashion at some point.
Personal weapons and personal responsibility prevailed, apparently.
Tasked for some non-shooty job? Take your rifle with you. Place it close to where you are working or sling the bloody thing.
The concept of the soldier as just a cypher with a pike (and what is a rifle with a bayonet, but a potentially noisy pike?), died very hard, sadly, unlike the flower of the youth of Britain (and its Empire) and Europe.
http://raidsmilitaria.com/viewphoto....h=50317&phqu=3Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueAussie
Give them a call, they are a very nice company to deal with...
Piling swivels were certainly still fitted to plenty of rifles during WW2 as there are plenty of period photos showing them.
Cheapest by far so far but out of stock DAMMIT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccaneer
What changed was the nature of warfare, nothing to do with personal weapons and personal responsibility. When piling arms was popular the expectation was that they were going to fight the grand style of battles of the 1700s-1800s. You encamped in a area, at a certain time you met on the battlefield, fought the good fight, and a victor would emerge. WWI killed that notion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
When your in a camp it makes a lot of sense to have arms piled. It keeps them out of the mud, snow, etc. In fact there are times where I have wished we had piling swivels on our modern rifles today (mainly in winter warfare conditions as you don't bring your rifle inside the tent as it will thaw, then freeze up once you leave your tent, so the rifles are left outside the tent). WWI trench warfare you didn't really have the opportunity to pile arms, you were too busy sleeping in whatever somewhat dry spot you could find, rifle ready to go at a moments notice.