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Attachment 45685Greetings:
First time on the range with this weapon. Fired 10 rounds out of a No 4 Mk 2, just acquired. Five rounds in a white box (reloaded?), came with the rifle. Also a dozen rounds of Remington .303 British.
Just learning to check my fired casings and noticed the white box ammo had two long cracks at the neck area. The Remington rounds were not cracked open, but had a lot of burnt powder on the necks.
Does my rifle have a chamber problem? Or, is it the ammo.
Were they hard to extract? just looking at the top left of your photo, looks like a "shoulder" has been formed near the base of the case.
bad brass
Is the ammo with the neck cracks reloaded military surplus cases?
I don't think you have a chamber problem. The cases with the neck cracks have probably been loaded quite a few times and suffer from metal fatigue. The shoulder or bulge at the web is likely due to undersized cases.
The soot around the mouths of the Remington cases is normal.
It may be the the lighting but are those Remington tips cast lead? If so, there're all reloads. Looks to me like work hardened brass that wasn't annealed as far as the split necks. Burnt powder residue on the neck is nothing unusual to me.
The mark on those split cases is from a full length sizing die. The cases look tired.
I,ve preached many times to individuals who have bought a rifle and where given reloads, whats in them ? you havent a clue so dont use them. Bin them and use your own or factory ammo.
Where did that ammo come from? Id clean and look down the bore/chamber, then Buy 20 new rounds and see if its repeated?
Kind of strange so many failed at once....
regards
Couldn't agree more. I just aquired a lot of reloaded 30-06 recently and just a quick visual inspection is enough to put one off: primers proud of the primer pocket and variable seating depths of the bullets to start with. The good news is mostly Lapua brass and some nice HPBT 168gn. bullets. Well worth having but only for the components - NOT for firing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
That kind of splitting or cracking looks like age embrittled brass. I've had cases that split before firing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viejorifle
Reloading without annealing or very old cartridges. Lack of annealing usually splits the cases from the mouth down but not always. I've only seen the shoulders split from age embrittlement.Quote:
Originally Posted by viejorifle
Those cases have some serious expansion above the web. The Remington cases look the same. Are those nickel plated or cupronickle? Those do not look like reloads - those cases are factory fresh.
The chamber does seem to be generous - that's a lot of web expansion and it's visible on the Remington cases too (can't see how much on them). Only measurements will say for sure. You can measure the base of the case and compare that to a drawing. They should be around 0.4554 inch just below the expansion ring (0.2 inch from the rim). The diameter of the chamber at the expansion ring can be found easily and compared to those cases.
Those cases are typical of undersized commercial cases with the cases expansion showing FLS marks and spilting in the neck shoulder area on firing nothing new just tired brass from being undersized fired and FLS often. The FLS die is made to the same under size specs.
The Remington cases look the same. Are those nickel plated or cupronickle? Those do not look like reloads - those cases are factory fresh.
Since when did Remington use Nickle plated bullets? I have to disagree none of that brass looks remotely factory fresh, look at the 3 still in box, one can see spots and stains and dirt under the rim. Could they be "new" surplus of some kind? Maybe, a picture of the headstamp will tell the tail. Whatever they are a little blow by at the neck is a none issue. Nothing is wrong with the Op's rifle the reloaded ammo brass is just plain wore out.
In the past commercial reloaded .303s sometime made use of Canadian surplus Boxer cases, often from tracer or other loadings that were unlikely to be useful in a civilian context. Mush of this brass is 70 years old now and i don't care to use it.
Not that I know anything about reloading, on the basis that if the Queen didn't stock it, I didn't shoot it but knowing a bit about brass then surely, if the brass - any brass - is annealed fairly frequently after being subject to the extreme and almost instantaneous temp change then it could be used indefinately. So long as it hasn't started its natural structural breakdown to constituent parts of course. JM and Paul B, you're the metallurgists........ what say you?
It will still lengthen after every use, and get trimmed, until there is plastic failure towards the rear end. All the annealing in the world won't stop that. And spending time and heat-energy annealing it is money - there comes a point where the effort involved in preserving its usability is more than it's worth - especially with common calibres like this one.
Regarding brass cartridge cases:
I have an elderly box of Kynoch .280 Ross cartridges that have split case necks from just setting in the box. These are not reloads. Drastic and or repeated forming of cartridge cases will work harden the material resulting in spits. Possibly chemical interactions from the powder breaking down over time may also alter case material properties. Poor annealing procedures may also cause problems. I have seen case failures when guys tried to neck down a case neck from .30 to .22 without proper annealing or trying to do it in one go. My friend tried to make .280 Ross cases from Weatherby caliber cases. The necking down issues resulted in 1 in 5 being correctly formed. Certainly most cases will not last forever. Some may last five or six reloads and some requiring full length resizing even less. Optimum usage would suggest that the same cases are used in the same rifle with no full size forming---just the neck.
Mk7 and others............ Why do the cases lengthen? You can only lengthen at/to the detriment of something else surely? And surely, if they DO lengthen, then lengthening in this context is simply stretching. And in that case they'd lengthen uniformly along the total length - yes?
As I said I'm not and never have been a reloader but.......... Maybe there's more Q's than A's in the reloading game!
Peter, reload! a whole new world of fun awaits you! I mean bugger it your only young once...
From re-reading this and reading splits, burns etc and I think we all suspect age. On top of that they could have been overloaded, having that many split in one go.....I be petrified of that old ammo. Do the primers look flattened? if they have lost the small curve on the outer rim of the primer they could also have been overloaded, lots of morons think a full case is best...
I'd clean the chamber and take a close look see if its got any nasties . If she looks good, buy 20 Highland AX / Privy you can get them in 150gr and 180gr....SP. These are good brass, if these also split.
Id bin those rounds....
Do ppl find the no4 is hard on brass? everyone I talk to thinks so....P14 on the other hand is far kinder....
I want to get into casting as my next project....this winter I hope....apparantly a bit of an art to get 2400.....
Is this for a hunting rifle ? or just a closet fan of the M1903 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
When one resizes the brass be it full length or neck size only the brass stretches a bit each time at the neck. After a few times you have to trim it back to minimum spec. After a number of stretch trim, stretch trim cycles the neck thins out and eventually splits. There are things you can do to prolong brass life but it will wear out.
I seem to be the odd man out - I have serviceable brass over 30 years old. It neither stretches nor cracks. Neither does it expand at the web like that. The only case losses I've had over the years is to long grass. I never need to set the shoulders back either. I should hasten to add I do not load and fire them every day but some individual cases get used for load testing and those get loaded several times a day when I'm doing that.Quote:
Do ppl find the no4 is hard on brass? everyone I talk to thinks so....P14 on the other hand is far kinder....
Annealing often is a requirement for consistent neck tension so should be done after every three or four firings.
I've never seen an undersized case so I can't comment on that. Those cases may be thin wall so the very marked expansion ring could be explained but it looks like high pressure. The primer needs to be examined. It's not the outer primer radius so much as the firing pin indent radius. A primer that shows the outer radius is fine but one that is flattened only means it might have backed out and was reseated on firing.
My cases don't normally show such a dramatic expansion. I do have some very old cartridges and they show their age with tarnishing. One doesn't often see annealing stains on commercial brass - they get polished. Military brass doesn't. Apparently the military requires annealing stain because of the problem un-annealed brass can cause. PRVI brass comes with annealing stain.
Where the brass comes from when cases stretch is the web area where it weakens the case leading to case head separation.
I had some reformed military brass in 25-303, some of which were cracked with age. Those that weren't were pulled and annealed then reloaded with no problem. Those that were not pulled all split on firing. So it seems that if the cases can be annealed in time they are fine. (The factory that did the reforming did not reuse the cordite).
+1 on your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Re Reloads, if I didn't load it, I won't shoot it!:nono:
End of Story.
Believe it! A friend bought a Lee Enfield and it came with some ammo. This friend happily started shooting this stuff off. He noted that some fired quite stiff while others were pretty mild. Well, this thing had severe excess headspace and although I advised him not to fire it he continued. Well, the rifled began to jamb until it was inoperable so he took it back. He gave me what was left of the ammo which I pulled. The powder wouldn't flow out the cases and some had a small charge and others full. Powder bridging in the powder hopper. For those that don't reload - the powder 'bridges' in the popper which holds back some of the powder then that amount plus the new charge get dropped into the next case. Now some people charge then seat a bullet. Bad idea because then these things don't get picked up. So, never use someone else's hand loads! Also use a powder that fills the case and at the same time has a slower pressure rise and moderate peak pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trung Si
Not really. Cyclic sizing and stretching work hardens the brass resulting in splitting. The brass comes from the web area mostly. In the process the shoulder creeps forward resulting in the 'doughnut' at the base of the neck. Full length sizing does that. The neck itself could get stretched and lose material on trimming.Quote:
stretch trim cycles the neck thins out and eventually splits.
The use of an expander ball draws the case forward too. A collet type neck sizer solves that.
Old ammo can suffer neck splits, just sitting in the box. This is mostly the result of insufficient annealing of the neck before bullet-seating. Brass, like a lot of other metals "ages". Seating a bullet involves forcing it into a neck that is "undersized" This puts a fair amount of mechanical stress on the neck and this stress may eventually lead to cracks if the crystal structure of the brass is not sufficiently "relaxed".
ANY case that has been fired even ONCE with a mercuric based primer WILL fail in fairly short order. The mercury in the priming compound is released as "free" metal vapour upon ignition and some of it IMMEDIATELY bonds with the brass. From that instant on, your brass is doomed as the mercury steadily disrupts the crystal structure of the brass causing embrittlement.
In the "old days", folk who understood this and had some smarts (and the primers), would strip down the Mk 7 ball ammo. The trick was to "neutralise" the primer before attempting to remove it; tossing the cases in diesel fuel for a few weeks is apparently one method. Once the mercuric primer was safely removed, (the hydraulic method is the safest and neatest), the case could be neck-annealed, reprimed using the RWS 6000 lead-based primer and reloaded, and reloaded etc.. A LOT of drama and a task only to be undertaken if you have bulk, very cheap Mk7 ball or very limited alternate ammo options.
The other consideration is the chamber:
I have some data on "Mil-spec" .303 chambers and interestingly enough, the dimensions are not too dissimilar from SAAMI.
What I suspect is that a LOT of surplus rifles have had their bores "polished" and chambers "cleaned" for commercial sale. If some bozo has ripped into the chamber with a strip of 100 grit carbide cloth on a wobbly spindle mounted in a power-drill, who knows what evil has been done. It might LOOK all sparkly and "clean"........
Homework challenge:
It would be interesting to get a quick survey of brass measurements; HXP, Dominion, Winchester( Mil and "commercial"), Remington, Mk7 from sundry makers etc. and do a comparison with the SAAMI ammo spec. AND the published dimensions of SAAMI, Lee Enfield, Bren and Vickers chambers.
Let's face it, "reloading in the field" is not generally an approved military activity, especially on the two-way rifle range.
Cases lengthen on firing when some degree of axial play exists between the bolt face and the rear surface of the cartridge base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2u5z31t-1.jpg
1. The firing pin shoves the case forward, rim against the breech.
2. The primer detonates. If it's not heavily crimped in place, it backs out, shoving the bolt and barrel as far apart as it can.
3. The thin, forward part of the case expands to fill and grip the chamber while the bullet moves out of the case and down the barrel.
4. The solid case head can't expand and grip the chamber, so it moves rearward, re-seating the primer, stretching the case walls just forward of the head, and stopping when it hits the bolt face. (In rear-locking actions like the Lee, the bolt and receiver also compress/stretch to add a little more movement. The higher the pressure, the more they move.)
5. If (and only if) the amount of head movement exceeds the elastic limits of the case, the cartridge separates into two pieces. If it doesn't separate, it just get a little longer - and somewhat thinner at the point where it stretched. Image below shows this effect on the four US-made cases at right, all reloaded many times before being scrapped and sectioned.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../29eovnr-1.jpg
In reloading, cases lengthen during full-length sizing. Cases expand radially to fit the chamber on firing - how much depends on relative case and chamber dimensions, as well as chamber pressure. In the resizing operation, the lubricated case is forced into a chamber-shaped die slightly smaller than a minimum chamber. Since the case head is supported by the sizing ram and the case body is squeezed radially, the metal displaced from case body diameter moves in the only direction open to it - forward into the neck where the case is not constrained by the die.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...20Diepng-1.jpg
Both effects, localized stretch on firing and more general elongation during resizing, are cumulative during successive re-uses of the case. Elongation is addressed by trimming back the mouth of the case but stretching/thinning that occurs on firing is, for practical purposes, irreversible and eventually results in head separation unless the reloader monitors case condition carefully and discards those near fracturing.
The whole business can mostly be avoided by sizing only the necks of fired cases, producing reloaded ammunition with zero-end play in the chamber where previously fired and that hasn't been significantly elongated by full-length resizing.
303 i have some brass like that very good quality (IMI) headstamp. I have had head separation on the second fireng of the case the metal was very poor quality brass. I only use neck collect dies. I also form 303/243 cases from either new 303 or already formed 303/270 or 303/25 and i can tell you some manufactureres use very poor quality brass in the first case. Without annealing i can get 7 reloads before neck / shoulder splits appear on good quality brass.
Great write up and illustrations, Parashooter :thup:
Those sectioned cases don't show any visible sign of 'dough nut' formation.
To All Who Have Responded:
Thank you for the informative input. I am learning a great deal about cartridges and reloading.
This rifle is one I bought out of nostalgia. About 50-60 years ago, many were the times I drilled with a Lee Enfield as a Cadet. Interestingly, I can still remember how to Slope Arms and Present Arms. I thought I might use it in Service Competition Target Matches.
The rifle is marked as FTR 1949. A .303 round placed nose first into the muzzle displays about 1/16" of bullet copper. A round placed in the chamber without stroking the bolt displays the all of the cartridge rim sides when pushed by hand forward. The bolt head shows a "0" marking.
I checked the rounds that came with the rifle. There were 14 R P 30.06 Sprg round, copper jacketed and showing nose lead. I fired 5 which appeared earlier in the post. The cartridges with splits in the neck are dated 1928, 1929 and 1930. Two have flattened primers. There are 7 other rounds with similar dates. I will not be loading them ever. They fired OK, and the bolt action was normal, not hard extraction.
Will seek some Privi, but having a hard time locating .303 British. Any suggestions folks?
Thanks again for the great response. Ray
I guess on line?
I dont now where to shop in the US,
303 British | Rifle Ammo | Ammo
Comes in FMJ 174gr or sp 150gr or 180gr, even others....
I suspect the wolf might be privy as well....
I have some 150gr coming....cant seem to get 180gr.....might try pulling a few and putting in a fmj as I cant get fmjs off the shelf in NZ.
---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------
can you tell us what the full writing is on the left hand side of the receiver please?
So those are cupronickle bulletted cartridges then. They'll be cordite loaded too. Something I've noticed on factory rounds is they always seem to flatten the primer more than my hand loads. Must be the primer material that's softer.
I believe Wolf is made by Prvi. I can't remember where I read that. I'd like that confirmed before taking it as fact.
I have a stash of Prvi brass but couldn't find any more 180gr Prvi bullets. Those are very accurate in my two-groove. I had just sort of assumed Prvi brass would be easy to get in the the US too. The 180's it seems, are just not that popular. They're boat tails too but have a rather blunt soft nose. I've wondered whether the 150's would be as accurate. I suppose they can be seated to the same OAL. You know, with the powders now available and with seating way out the venerable Brit can equal the power of the modern 308 without overshooting the pressure limits of the Brit. I'm just saying - there's no logical reason to load that fast.
There is also a comment on compensation from the no4 barrel, so you could load faster but would that help or make thins worse...?
Wolf Ammunition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
my mistake its tula
Prvi Partizan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
privi is serbia....
must be thnkng of something else.
Wolf has marketed some Prvi Partisan under it's label. I've a case of 150gr bulleted Wolf .303 SAA at home. Not to mention their Eley primed .22 rf.Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj
As for the split cases, etc. I'm late to the thread, but I'm thinking it's all ammo dramas, not rifle. Start with some good "fresh" Prvi/Wolf and be happy...Additionally, as stated multiple times above, if they're not your reloads- don't shoot 'em!
Phew....... I think I'll just stick to what the Ammo storeman keeps in stock!
And the best there is as well. Life is just to easy for some.:thup::beerchug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I bought some sellier & bellot ammo for my mosin and a few of the casings cracked just like that. I think it has something to to with headspace...? I think it might be too much headspace so the shell expands and cracks...? No expert on this but I just never shot that ammo again but kt shot fine with steel cased ammo. Just a thought. I had a gunsmith tell me it has to do with the headspacing a lot of times
Quote:
Originally Posted by gewehrsniper
Not at all. It will happen in any normal firearm. (Maybe not so readily in a benchrest rifle, but even there it'll occur at some point.) Besides, a L-E or Mosin, etc. could blow a case out straight and still have good headspace! And if the brass is good, no splits.
I had it happen in a Mod 29 Smith in .44 mag. First shot on new brass, factory loads. Cracked and fractured all over the place. Those were just heavy loads.
As I've said before, old loaded ammo, some with splits with bullet still in place, those that were unsplit and fired split on firing. The remainder were pulled, necks annealed, reloaded and fired. No more splits. Brass age hardens. Ammonia is not good for brass either. Ammo stored in cupboards and places where mice get in can get exposed to ammonia from their pee. I've had some old ammo stored in a place where it should have been safe but one day I discovered the bullet jackets had been gnawed off some of them so mice where there in the gun room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Recently found an old box of .41 Mag factory ammo (1980s vintage) which had split cases before firing! Stored in an ammo can all these years (mine) so no ammonia, just poor factory processing...Other equally old .41 Mag ammo but from other mfgs.
in the same ammo can is fine.
Several years ago we were using up a load of RG 1969 7.62mm ball as 'training use' ammo on the SF courses - and it was perfect
Good Info. Those old cases with chewed bullets had not split. I've only seen old milsurp 303 brass split before firing and my old 25-303 was formed from milsurp 303.
ssj:
As requested. Sorry it took me a while to get to it. I was wrong it was not FTR. Looks like Fazerkely.
No 4 MK2 (F)
8/49 PF 129xxx
This rifle has seen some use and... it shows, however, the action seems tight and its first shots for me were on paper (at 25 yards and even though I am really rusty and can't see so well).
If I rub down the stock with 0000 steel wool, and apply BLO will that a proper restoration step?
Ray
The trouble with amateurs who set about their fore-ends etc etc with wire wool and sandpaper etc etc is that they quickly go ballistic and run great grooves in the wood. They also run into the band recesses etc and over at the ends and edges, leaving grotty rounded edges that soon feather into nothing....., getting worse by the second.
Watch a cabinet maker strut his stuff first and THEN take on your own is my advice
I've been reloading .303 Brit for about two years now and have done probably a few thousand rounds, trying to neck size only, tough with 11 rifles here that shoot 303 and only 350 cases in hand. I had my first case head seperation on Sunday, in a MkIII Ross. The brass showed no signs of seperation before firing, had been FL sized once and neck sized once. When I last loaded them they only took a trim of a few thou. I've culled all of this loaded ammo with cases from that manufacturer that I have and will pull them down. How can I check inside the case for signs of thinning, only by sectioning?
Sorry for the hijack, thought the question was relevant with all the other info given here
I appreciate that a novice woodworker could change, even destroy the character of a historic rifle. Not my intention, just starting to inquire how to go about cleaning up this rifle with due respect for its key characteristics.
Perhaps I should have asked more directly. I've read that boiled linseed oil was the original finish and I was seeking confirmation. I do plan on much further research into the subject before taking action.
I am comfortable with refinishing and woodworking, something I've done for over 50 years.Here's a box I made for my wife. Attachment 45787
Kind regards, Ray
Nice work Ray!
Is the wood dirty? What I do is a bone dry gentle rub with 0000 steel wool watching for changes in color etc. you want to stop before you see color change etc. only go until the dirt/mold/pigeon poop is gone. Blow it off with compressed air and the simply wipe on a new coat of Raw linseed oil. Let it sit for a half hour or so and then wipe off the excess. Thats what i do on a really neglected stock. yours may just need to dirt wiped off and some fresh Raw linseed oil wiped on/off as above. You just want to clean it and give it a drink, it'll thank you with a happy glow.
Sir, you are a master craftsman of the highest order and if that jewellery box is the standard of your work, it deserves the highest accolade. It is truly magnificent! I'd say that you were well qualified to do your own fore-end/woodwork. And yes, linseed is the way to go.
Just let me ask the other master Craftsman for his opinion of your skills too............ TBone...... Comments on Viejorifles cabinet making skills?
Flying pig, I use a paper clip bent sharply at one end to feel inside .303, you will feel without any doubt any thinning...
I love the box! A few years ago I bought a book on "The art of Making Small Wooden Boxes" (miniatures) and that reminds me a lot of some of the designs therein. That's a really neat, elegant little job. I love seeing what people built in their own time for their own (or their wives) pleasure. Thanks for posting!
Might I ask why raw linseed oil? I always thought it was boiled. Anyway, an easy way to clean up a stock is with 50/50 boiled? linseed oil/natural turpentine. Rub on with a course cloth and rub down all the dirt. Wipe off the excess then rub dry with the palm of the hand (lots of elbow work). If you manage to find some natural/genuine turpentine please tell me where - I can't find any in my parts.
For polishing woodwork after it has been treated with linseed oil (a buddy did a stock for his step son without polishing the wood), use Scotch Bright pads (green). That wood polished up like it was done properly in the first place. It had had about two weeks of daily oiling and rubbing and drying in the sun.
Thanks everyone for your kind comments. That is what I try to do. Smaller projects but done meticulously. My little lady is happy.
For my Lee Enfield which is dirty and dinged with a few deep gashes. I will gently rub down with dry steel wool and see how it responds to some raw linseed oil.
Ray
At an artists' supply store (e.g. Hobbycraft) you can get linseed oil which does dry (polymerises) in a few days - as opposed to remaining permanently a sticky mess like raw linseed oil.
It comes in small bottles of very viscous linseed oil. You would thin it with turpentine (use the real stuff, not white spirit/mineral spirits/mineral turpentine/turpentine substitute). Turpentine is also available from artists' stores.
Now, this stuff does not come cheap, because it is used for mixing with artists' oil paints. But you only need a few drops to rub into your stock occasionally. Having had several stocks which remain tacky forever with DIY-store linseed oil, I can recommend using the correct linseed oil ... or can I suggest you might use Danish oil, which polymerises a lot faster and dries harder? In non-antique stocks like No 1 and No 4 rifles, I think is altogether a better finish. This is only a personal suggestion and is bound to be controversial!
Ah, that's why boiled linseed oil is used - it dries while raw does not. Rubbing with the palm of the hand dries it, leaving a deep, waterproof lustre (after weeks of treatment).
viejorifle, might I urge you not to start with the steel wool. It is an abrasive on wood and does remove material and tends to clean the high points and leave the depressions dirty. Those dings need to be lifted first. To do that, place a wet towel over the ding and apply a hot iron to that wet rag. Repeat until each ding is lifted. Try the Scotch Bright pads first (found in the kitchen). For smoothing the lifted dings if you so wish can be done with very fine emmory paper (600 - 1000 grit) on a cork block. Steel wool will follow any irregularity and therefore not smooth it out which is fine if you want to keep it that way but I would still go the Scotch Bright route. Try it and decide from there. Use boiled linseed oil and turpentine on it - that cleans the wood while polishing it. The results will be amazing.
ADDENDUM - Natural turpentine is called gum turpentine and is made from pine gum. It is toxic and has a shelf life. It can cause dermatitis (I never had any reactions to it). It's possible that citrus oil will work as a substitute. It smells better and is non-toxic. As RobD said, gum turpentine is available from art stores.
Raw because that's what was done in the service. It soaks in and keeps moisture in the wood rather than staying on top. Also it doesn't leave a glossy slippery finish like boiled linseed oil will.
I only use the steel wool if it is a stock that has been through hell, left in a barn and literally covered in moldy fifty year old pigeon crap etc. I have a MkI* Ross here that came to me like that. A gentle rub with very very fine steel wool and some fresh RLO and it came back stunningly. As for dents, in my opinion dents and scars are part if its history.
Right. I was told to dilute the boiled linseed oil with gum turpentine to make it soak in which is what I did. Only after several weeks of the 50/50 did I change to straight. That stock is plenty waterproof now. It did darken the wood though. Does raw linseed oil darken the wood? I happen to like dark wood so I'm OK with it.
On the real side of life, while we used to rub over the wood with linseed, at the main workshops, it was dunked overnight in a warm-to-touch vat of linseed and left to drip dry in the day
A couple of cautions:
Steel wool is excellent for bringing timber to a "sheen" HOWEVER, be very careful about "lost" whiskers. These tiny bits of steel embed themselves in sundry end-grain edges, tiny splits etc and may eventually RUST, causing a nasty stain in your timber. So, before applying any sealer / oil, get a very big magnet from the back of a blown-up loudspeaker, wrap a layer of cheesecloth around it and carefully glide it over the timber. You may be amazed at the amount of steel fibres you find.
Most of what is called "boiled' linseed is actually treated with an acid, a process that "emulates" boiling but keeps the price down. The point of the exercise is to greatly shorten the drying time.
Beware "ScotchBrite" or similar pads near metal components. ScotchBrites are so effective at removing hard crud because they contain tiny abrasive (Silicon Carbide) particles in the spun plastic fibres. Great for getting the burnt offerings out of the wok, but hell on blued or even phosphated components. OK on timber; you don't get rusty steel fibres, but the finish is not exactly "fine".
One trick for getting a fine finish on timber is to use steel wool, but Grade 000 for even 0000, wrapped around a cork sanding block. This reduces any tendency to "waviness". Fibre caveat applies even more with this stuff, however.
Most "issue" woodwork is not exactly finished to a high gloss, especially WW1 onwards.
Keep any sort of linseed oil away from working parts. I once had to deal with a couple of real service rifles that were completely gummed up. A dopey storeman had issued a pump-pack of linseed in stead of the "real" oil. I had to use carburetter cleaner to separate some of the parts before the real cleaning could be done. The dopey diggers obviously didn't know the difference in smell between Linseed and "proper" rifle oil, nor understand the concept of "a light film of oil". The stores chaps were also very remiss in not labeling oil bottles. The linseed was supposed to be used on the handles of picks and shovels. It's not all glamour in the toyshop.
Interesting. I used the Scotch Brite because I didn't want to abrade the wood and fine sandpaper would simply clog and besides, one cannot 'raise' sanded wood with a damp cloth once it's been oiled. The Scotch Brite worked just fine. Perhaps it was more appropriately applied to linseed oiled wood as I did. I kinda think I used 'used' pads and not fresh for the very reason you mention. I may have tried used ones first then moved on to fresh - can't say for sure now. However, it is less abrasive than steel wool.
I assume everyone knows about 'raising' wood during the final fine sanding/sheaning stages. The damp cloth application to 'raise' the fibres for the next sanding until the wood stays smooth.
Can one get stainless steel wool? Or fine enough brass wool? That would solve the lost whisker problem. But I still suggest Scotch Brite (there are different grades of Scotch Brite).
"Mr. Scotch" seems to have a product for every imagineable application, I might pop over to their website and see what they offer for the "cabinet-makers".
You're right Bruce! The problem is that all these things are fine for the skilled but it's when the butchers get their hands on this stuff............
At my sons school Cadet Unit, I take their No8 rifles into work every year and either strip, clean and assemble and test or ask the good Armourters to do it. One year I left the woodwork in the school Armoury with a bottle of linseed and some sheets of scotchbrite and very fine wire wool and said to the man in charge that it'd be a good idea if a couple of the shooting team could clean the wood down and linseed it. BIG mistake No1! The handguards were all rounded off, the front band slots smoothed down to the bottom......... god..... horrendous!
Mind you, some of the rifles in the hands of my shooting club friends are just as bad!
They do a special scotchbrite for cleaning the OG lenses of the SUSAT sight too. Well, they do at Warminster!
What a wealth of experience and knowledge on this web-site. I am so glad to have found it.
I agree, from experience, that steel wool whiskers are a pain to deal with. I have used the white and grey synthetic pads which remove small nibs and do not leave residue.
I will study the great information on this web-site in the Restoration section and bear in mind all the points raised here before I touch my rifle's stock. I'm thinking that carefully removing the wooden stock pieces and separating the components would preserve the metal from abrasion and allow full access to the wood surfaces. Also, give me a chance to observe the condition of the receiver, barrel, trigger group, etc.
Looks like I have a fun project ahead.
BTW received 6 boxes of Prvi .303 British from Midway USA.
Cheers all. Ray