No.4 Mk1 magazine not seating

Hello

I am new to Milsurps and hopefully am posting in the correct forum.

I just got my very first Enfield, No.4 mk1 and I'm having trouble with the mag. It's not original to the gun, and has no serial numbers of any kind. Looks relatively cheap to me, but it's all I have for her. I can't get the thing to seat properly into the receiver. It won't go in far enough to catch on the mag release and as a result it will not feed properly, ever. From the wear marks on the back of the wedge caused by the mag release, it's doubtful that it has ever latched in that gun. I can pretty much guarantee nobody was able to fire the gun with this mag in it, must have thrown it in to make the sale.

When looking at the mag from the rear, the top edges are not level with each other, possibly one side too tall?

Does anyone know if I can fix this POS, or where I can get a real mag? The gun itself is great, numbers matching... just came with this weird magazine.

This was quite common and magazines had to be fitted to the rifle - that's why they are numbered! GENTLY file the backstrap back, a few .001"'s at a time and square-on until it clicks firmly into place and feels as tight as a ducks ar........, er....., tight as a ducks bottom.

Check that one or more lips is not fouling the top of the magazine well. It happened to me once and took me ages to find.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

This was quite common and magazines had to be fitted to the rifle - that's why they are numbered! GENTLY file the backstrap back, a few .001"'s at a time and square-on until it clicks firmly into place and feels as tight as a ducks ar........, er....., tight as a ducks bottom.

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I had read that, it's a shame I don't have the mag that came with it, would really add to the value.

Upon doing some more searching today, I think the mag might be one of the cheap reproductions from India, China or Japan.

Anyways, by backstrap, do you mean the top edges of the magazine that seat against the receiver? Should I square them out first? Are they supposed to be level with one another on these guns?

---------- Post added at 09:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

Check that one or more lips is not fouling the top of the magazine well. It happened to me once and took me ages to find.

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The lips don't appear to be interfering with the receiver at all, but someone has tweaked the front left a ton.

By back strap, I mean the strap at the back. Why would the original magazine make a rifle any more valuable than a rifle with a magazine, correctly fitted and numbered by an Armourer later in its life. Or come to that, a new magazine correctly fitted and numbered by a competent amateur.

Back strap.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...54996d33-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

By back strap, I mean the strap at the back. Why would the original magazine make a rifle any more valuable than a rifle with a magazine, correctly fitted and numbered by an Armourer later in its life. Or come to that, a new magazine correctly fitted and numbered by a competent amateur.

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I would kill to have a mag correctly fitted and numbered by an armourer. I meant more or less that I think it would be more valuable to have a magazine made by an actual Royal Ordinance or Savage than a knock off.

Post some photos. You quite possibly are trying to fit a No1 magazine in a No4 rifle.

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Originally Posted by MJ1

Back strap.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...54996d33-1.jpg

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Ah yes, I understand what he meant now. I don't know if that will solve my problem. By filing the backstrap as suggested, it would lock into place yes, but at it's current seating against the bottom of the receiver. I better get a picture up so you guys can see, as mine looks pretty different than that one.

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Originally Posted by Paul Stud

....as mine looks pretty different than that one.

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aha...

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

Post some photos. You quite possibly are trying to fit a No1 magazine in a No4 rifle.

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Nail and head spring to mind.

It does appear to me to be a no4 mag, I think just a really crappy knockoff. Also notice the sanding marks all over it... ?




https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1808-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1813-1.jpg



It's this one below that I am hoping shows the problem I think I have. The top left side of the mag is so much higher than the right. The left seats up against the receiver bottom flush, the right side doesn't come close, and the whole thing hangs too low and as mentioned previously won't latch...

At any rate, the bolt barely strips a cartridge off, sometimes going over top of the rounds. When it does strip one it rams it nose first into the bottom of guide rail and goes nowhere.




https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1820-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1810-1.jpg

The left side is MEANT to be higher than the other. It is a reminder of its ancestry when the first No4 prototypes had a magazine cut-off. It allows the cut-off to slide over. Never modified when the cut-off was deleted from No4 series production.

It was suggested at the time but the report into the comment stated that if both sides were made equal height, it would immediately mean that there would be no replacement magazines for those early and trial rifles in service. No, but someone should have answered back. Well take the bloody cut-offs off them then!

That crappy sanding appears on brand new UK production ones. Paul, just get on and fit the bloody thing as we've suggested. It should take 5 minutes to get that upo and running if you want my opinion as a bit part amateur

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The left side is MEANT to be higher than the other. It is a reminder of its ancestry when the first No4 prototypes had a magazine cut-off. It allows the cut-off to slide over. Never modified when the cut-off was deleted from No4 series production.

It was suggested at the time but the report into the comment stated that if both sides were made equal height, it would immediately mean that there would be no replacement magazines for those early and trial rifles in service. No, but someone should have answered back. Well take the bloody cut-offs off them then!

That crappy sanding appears on brand new UK production ones. Paul, just get on and fit the bloody thing as we've suggested. It should take 5 minutes to get that upo and running if you want my opinion as a bit part amateur

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Will do, thanks for the input. Do you think it's failure to feed might be caused by something else? Feed lips etc?

I'm guessing that's a Promag replacement mag. They're around here now...you're close to two sources, Collector Source and Marstar. One will have a real mag for you. Then sell that one on CanadianGunNutz...or send the whole thing to Peter for sorting...

Marstar has new condition unissued mags, but they want 75 a piece. I'll check Collector Source, thanks.

What things can I do to fix this one, other than fitting back to the mag release latch?

Insided Joke?

Well, Peter was an Armourer officer for a "Number of years" and if he had it there'd be no more problems...the only thing to do without actually having my hands on it would be touch the spine with a file until it sits correctly. Sounds like there's other things though. Can you just wait for a local gun show? There's bound to be some for $25 or so. That's what they go for...maybe $35 but not more. They'll be used...

Why do you have to bother with new? Just do what we'd do.......... Get another out of the tray - any one will do - and fit that to the rifle. Test for feed and functioning with drill rounds. Get it sorted, then bar out the old number(s) and send the rifle out, back to the Armoury

At the big workshops we'd wait until there were 25 or 30 or so defective magazines with worn back straps or dents and start a big repair programme. Cut back the worn part of the back strap, silver solder new, take out dents on a mandrill, police out lightly punched numbers then send through the phosphating plant. They''d all come out not exactly new, but rebuilt for a further 30 years of life. I'll tell you this........ We didn't bin very much!

I'm thinking that magazine can be made to work and you will likely have to do something to any other mag as well, unless you rob a known functioning unit from another rifle and it just happens to fit.

The feed lips will bend quite readily. you may even be able to drive this one in with educated blows of a soft faced rubber mallet. The mallet taps will at least show you where the high spots are that can be massaged down. Fitting your first magazine might take an hour or three, but it can usually be done without removing metal. Just controlled reforming. After fitting, don't remove and replace the magazine except for general maintenance. It's not for quick mag swaps! Reloading is done via chargers from the top side of the rifle. That or single rounds also inserted whilst the magazine is installed.

I am making this one work, but it's taking serious massaging. I will keep an eye out for an original for a decent price and pick it up though.

I had to file down the backstrap quite a bit to get it to latch. Probably .125 of an inch. It now latches tight as hell, but the feed problems are still present. Playing with the feed lips it will now strip a cartridge off, but it's ramming them into the top of the breech instead of the feed ramp as it did before. Somewhere will be a happy medium I hope. Looking pretty mangled so far.