Bro bought a K98, want to make sure he wasnt ripped off. Sas told to come here (pics)

hello,

My brother is a huge WW2 fanatic, and he collects a lot of German memorabilia.

Recently he bought a K98 from some machine gun shoot/ gun show.

My brother gave his old K98 and $200 for this gun.

The dealer said that the K98 was original, and made in Auschwitz. He also said the gun was worth about $3,000-$4,000.

The deal seems almost too good to be true. (A $400 rifle, and $200 for something that's worth $4000???) So I am afraid that it might be counterfit, or that the dealer might be stretching the value a lot..

I was hoping you guys could tell me if this is counter fit, how much its worth, and if guns were really made in Auschwitz?

(someone said it might be Russian capture as well, would that reduce price?)

Thank you guys so much!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g0qHFx5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../5K3InTx-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g0qHFx5-1.jpg

see that waffenamt on the top of the receiver above the "bnz" code? it shouldn't be there on an SS rifle. it is a fake.

can't tell if it's a Russian capture from these pics. but $3,000-$4,000 even for an all matching single rune is WAY high

and bnz rifles were not made in Auschwitz. it was Mauthausen in Austria that has the notorious connection to that code.


EDIT: after looking at the reciever, it does have the Russian capture "X" on the left side. it is an RC

thank you for the quick reply.

I hate to ask, but are you sure its fake?? I just don't want to break the news to my brother.
How much is it worth since its fake?

SS rifles were not inspected by regular military inspectors. they were a different branch of service and didn't use waffenamts in places where you'll find them on standard military rifles.

being that it's a Russian capture with a fake SS stamp, $300-$400 is about what it would fetch. simply for being a 98k in shootable condition.

I have to note also the finish is not original either. I can't tell but it's either the Russian refurb Shellac or Bubba goo.


"Nuts"

what should we do about the guy that sold it to us? Should we contact him and ask for a refund?

if you want, but unless he is a liar with a good heart i think you're stuck with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kar98k

if you want, but unless he is a liar with a good heart i think you're stuck with it.

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+1


"Nuts"

Buy the gun, not the story. Worth $4000.00 but sold for $400.00? So now you are trying to figure it out. Looks like a decent shooter to me. Good luck shooting it, I think it will work out just fine.

ends up that the guy ended up selling my brothers gun for $800.. The guy walked away with $1000, and my brother ended up with a $400 gun... ugh...

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Originally Posted by ob1

ends up that the guy ended up selling my brothers gun for $800.. The guy walked away with $1000, and my brother ended up with a $400 gun... ugh...

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Post the name of the gun show and the dealer's name here, so others can keep an eye out for him in the future .. ;)

Regards,
Doug

The dealer knew what was going on. He swapped a fake for a real K98. Good deal for the dealer.

Please don't let your brother kick himself over this. The only way you find out about this is to have it happen to you. Most of us have made our share of ..."Less than stellar" deals. That's how we know. I've had to watch silently a time or two while something shady went down too. Mostly because it was none of my business.

You have to cut your losses and move on with new knowledge. On the up side, you have what appears to be a nice shootable 8mm.

I'm thinking the guy committed fraud and could be prosecuted for it. It's the only way guys like this are going to be stopped. It's one of the reasons I hate shows like the "Pickers" because if you know how much something is worth and you offer them an extremely low price for it, it's fraud and against the law. They do that sort of thing all the time. It's KNOWING that makes the difference. This guy deliberately made a bad deal, knowing what he had and what he was getting.

Before I broke my back 5yrs ago I would've thought of one other way to stop scumbags like this and it wouldn't involve "understanding and compromise"

It sounds like an RC was traded for an RC with fake markings which stinks but the real loss was $200 and some pride. We live and learn.

Knowledge is everything in the gun collecting world.
My wife is always giving me a hard time about taking a case of reference books with us, when we set up at gun shows.

Years back when I lived in Spokane I saw a deal go that was poor. A collector died and his wife sold the collection for $500.00 down and the rest as it was sold off. The dealer who got the collection wrote "Total sale" on the $500.00 check. He then refused to pay for the rest of the collection. No contract was signed and she went to the Police. Who could not help her as the only paper was the check. It was for a total sale and the deed was completed. That woman needed that money but too bad. Lots of crooks at gunshows, so do pay attention.

Never listen to a gun show dealers stories about how much a rifle is worth, if he loves collecting mausers i suggest he buy a book all about the codes,dates, and yr of manufacter , next time he can just look up the code and see he got took to the cleaners on this one ,Gun show guys love taking advantage of so called collectors dont know what they are looking at , they see you like the piece , up goes the price and here comes a made in concentration camp rifle or w/e story the can come up with that will get you to bite , kinda feel for ya bro , but gun dealers of milsurps love guys like him.Shame he traded a good collector gun PLUS money for a shooter. Unfortunatley honor is not among theives and he was most deff robbed, just shoot her now, he owns it .

i'll make you feel a little better. first by saying your brother is not alone in buying faked SS stuff. secondly by showing this:

Rare World War II Nazi Gustloff Marked K98 Bolt Action Rifle with Sling


at least he didn't pay that much for such an obvious fake.

Knowledge is power. Soooo much good information here. I try to inform myself before a purchase but often in the heat of the moment you just have to use the knowlage you possess along with instinct. I was saved a bad purchase on a Hakyem by a regular show attende who was kind enough to look it over for me (I was completly uninformed on the Haykem) It had seveal problems. BTW this is the same fellow who refunded me on a Garand I purchased from him when I found the barrel and reciever were spot welded. Not everyone at gunshows is a crook.

Everyone is fallable and things can backfire for the con-artists. One frequent seller at local shows who I now know to commonly sell fakes sold me a very collectable gun for about 1/3 to 1/4 of its worth because he hadn't done his homework. In fact he thought the gun was a "khyber pass" (which he didn't come out and say as he sensed I wanted to shoot it!) but having, by sheer coincidence, recently read several detailed threads on Kyhber pass guns on this forum I was 100% sure it was not. It actually took me several weeks to figure out what it really was and to find out I had stolen it. Point is there's no rational way to prepare for buying at a show unless you stick religiously to a make you truly know well (or don't have a day job). These days I'm buying most of my rifles from one of several good on-line sellers or on the CGN forum where all sellers have feedback ratings. Much safer and way better selection than one gets at shows. Not surprisingly, these on-line sellers rarely throw out wild stories about the gun which would be available for the world to see (and laugh at).

Ridolpho

Well, one thing is for certain - None of you guys know what you are talking about as far as this rifle is concerned!!!
THAT IS A RATHER UNCOMMON 42 DATED BNZ SINGLE RUNE RIFLE!!!
Even as an RC it is worth $4-$600.
I would need more & better photos to know exactly what it is, but the following info would help - Is it matching, if not how badly mismatched? Are there importers marks on it - usualy on the bbl by the front sight?
Sarge

SS rifles have waffenamts.??

I have no stake in this as I don't have a clue what markings are on what but I did out of curiosity look up images of single rune rifles and none have waffenamts on them. Only BNZ rifles without the single rune have them. Ball's book doesn't show any either. Backbone is currently on the bottom of a huge stack of books and it isn't exactly accurate anyway.

Very very shiny?

Ok so your brother traded his gun plus 200$ for the gun in question. Now lets just say I don't know much about mausers out side of buying shooters and less expensive rifles that look decent.
1. I assume from the get go your brother was looking to up grade?
2. What was his rifle worth or what did he have.
3. The rifle in question looks pretty nice. I don't see many k98 mausers reguardless of RC, Original or "shooter" grade for much less than 500.00?
4. It sucks this happened. Now unless you got a really low ball trade in on. Brothers original rifle. Its par for the course when you really don't know enough. Been there with other rifles and collectsbles.
5. One other point is did your brother know what the gun he was tradeing worth?
I might have missed it ......what was the total cost of this rifle?
Could have been worse, like paying 2800$ for a ?4000$? Rifle ghats worth 400-600.

So how does it shoot.

Everyone makes mistakes... ;)

Early in my collecting career, I bought a $2,000 rifle that was a fake and actually worth about $500... :banghead:

The worse situation was that I didn't even know it was a fake until I had sold it..... :o

Anyway, it's one of the reasons we started this site almost 8 years ago, which is intented to help new collectors research their pieces, hopefully before they buy, or if afterwards, at least validate them the best our Advisory Panel, can so the owner can enjoy peace of mind... :thup:

Regards,
Doug

When I lived in Wash DC I would hit the Pikesville, MD show all of the time. I would see a dealer who had exotic Mausers like I had never seen. Kar98a's with Nazi proofs and Gew 98's with 1940 dates. I asked him one day where this stuff was coming from. He looked around and softly told me he had a gunsmith stamp it up. Nobody knew and keep that to yourself. I never spoke to him again. There is a guy out in Huntington Beach, CA with lots of exotic stuuf and I question all of it. Buyers must be aware and if the deal looks to good to be true it likely isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

When I lived in Wash DC I would hit the Pikesville, MD show all of the time. I would see a dealer who had exotic Mausers like I had never seen. Kar98a's with Nazi proofs and Gew 98's with 1940 dates. I asked him one day where this stuff was coming from. He looked around and softly told me he had a gunsmith stamp it up. Nobody knew and keep that to yourself. I never spoke to him again. There is a guy out in Huntington Beach, CA with lots of exotic stuuf and I question all of it. Buyers must be aware and if the deal looks to good to be true it likely isn't true.

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i hate those people more than anything. ruining history to make an extra buck. jackasses.

1) Stamps are freely available, and their only function is for faking.
2) Rifles with certain stamps are more valuable than others.
3) The rarer, the more profitable for a faker.

ergo

4) The rarer, the more know-how you need to have before buying.
5) If it looks to good to be true, it usually is.
6) Verbal descriptions are not worth the paper they're written on.