Teaching some new hunters

I will be addressing "shot placement" on deer to the new hunters shortly and I wanted to see what the general opnion is on two questions. (New hunters will be using, 30/30s, 270s, and rest mostly .30 caliber). Using hunting ammo.

1. You have a deer directly in front of you (100 yards or less)) and he is facing you perfectly. Take the shot directly at the chest (where?) or pick one of the shoulders to break the deer down? This is the only shot you can get. Deer is backing up and not turning.
Let the deer go?

2. Deer is broadside to you in the open. Is there a "sweet spot" to shoot at? Shoot at one of the shoulders to break it down? Is there a spot where you will connect with the heart? Problem with the heart shot is that the deer will run 100 yards or more. I have had several do that.

Will be using an archery target that has the vitals on it as a visual aid......

Would enjoy any input I could get. I think I have answers for the questions but I may be wrong.

Broad side, I will draw a line from the back down through the legs vertical and cross it with a line through the center of the body from front to back. It'd about center of heart/shoulder/lungs. Yes they'll run, but if you aren't ready to track an animal, you shouldn't be starting this. The front shot is usually aimed just under his chin, depending on how much chest I can actually see.

Once I fire, I'll sit tight for 5 minutes and let him do what he's going to. Usually they don't go far. Once they lie down, they can't get up.

I never use stands and at best I'll use a rested shot if I can get one. Yes, I'm successful, yes, I bow hunt and use rifle...both iron and optic.

With 30-30s, 35s, and lesser velocity type rounds, I recommmend waiting 15-20 minutes or more before approaching. Have seen a chest shot deer that a friend shot with a .35 run off after 45 minutes and go another 300 yards! Was there for all that fun. I generally shoot just behind the legs into the chest cavity just above the heart. Frontal shots, the same: centered up just over the heart. Have broken legs on deer before and had them still travel a considerable ways on the three remaining. And handgun caliber can't be expected to put them down immediately unless a CNS hit is achieved. A high velocity round that disintegrates the lungs has been very successful for immediate "no tracking" shots. Have been using expanding type 55gr .223 rounds out of a 20" barrel for some time now as a preferred choice, but only with sure shot placement.

BTW, the last two shots I made on deer from front to back were not stoppers by any means, but neither was with a round going much over 2000 fps. One was an easy track due to the huge blood trail, and the other almost resulted in the loss of the deer. Had it not been still alive 2 hours later and raised it's head I would have never seen it even 15 feet away. (300yds from the initial hit.). Oddly, the bullet bruised the heart on the way through, so placement wasn't the drama!

I usually shoot a 45-70 in cutover at close range. Not much experience at shots at longer ranges odd angles but very interesting discussion. Hats off to AFmedic (and any others) for teaching new hunters.

Browningautorifle,

I like the idea of using below the chin as a landmark. The kids will remember that. The crosshair approach should be easly remembered for a broad side. Pray there is no buck fever!

jmoore,

I forgot about waiting after you took the shot. Your approach is about the same as Browningautorifle. Wait time too.

I am hoping that there is another hunter wth them who may have to calm the kid down and help with shot placement....

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Originally Posted by A. F Medic

Pray there is no buck fever!

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The trick is overcoming buck fever. My problem is it has been a long time sence I have seen a buck that was fever producing.

Above all they need to respect the animal. Don't take a shot just to shoot, don't shot unless it's a clear shot. Know what's between you and the animal like branches and such and what's behind. Let them know the first animal they do kill they my have mixed emotions, nobody said taking a life was fun.

Building on jmoore and Warpig's comments, teach them what to look for in the animal's reaction after the shot. Sorta gruesome, but it'll help them to stay the fever...maybe...

- humped rear end showing gut shot (better sit tight for at least an hour, in any weather except a snow storm)
- color/consistency of blood at the point of impact
- tail up or down?
- some rudimentary tracking and box search. Carry TP and/or survey tape!

All those came out of my bowhunting hunter ed course, in about 1985ish.

Good luck, and thanks for teaching the next generation!

Steve

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Originally Posted by gpw42

- some rudimentary tracking and box search. Carry TP and/or survey tape!

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Came in very handy (along with a couple of good flashlights) helping my friend's son track his first bow kill last weekend. I could not have been prouder had he been my own. Hands and knees thru some very thick brush. He made a very good shot though not much blood. He was very methodical and persistant and fully understood his resposibility to make every reasonable effort to find the animal.
Heres to the next genration.:clap:

That will be a big help! I now have a written description(s), advice, and images! Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Sarge1998

What the others said, lower left pic a big no-no.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../gun_sh1-1.jpg

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The broadside and frontal POAims look OK, but the angling shot placement impact zones are a bit off to my eyes. Especially the quartering towards the shooter view. That'll end up being mostly a gut shot.

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

Above all they need to respect the animal. Don't take a shot just to shoot, don't shot unless it's a clear shot. Know what's between you and the animal like branches and such and what's behind. Let them know the first animal they do kill they my have mixed emotions, nobody said taking a life was fun

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Excellent points, all. Threading the bullet through brush can be one of the most challenging aspects of making a good hit. It's a great justification for using a low powered scope, versus iron sights- trying to successfully "thread the needle" through the intervening vegetation. A brush hit anywhere except the last few feet is likely to do bad things to any shot fired except maybe a .50 BMG. Deer are plenty big, but those "holes" can be frustartingly teeny!

I like deer, and have certainly watched many with great enjoyment for long periods. Have even engaged in some short range staredowns with no harm to either party. It makes for great memories and rather less work.

The meat is also a favorite, certainly more than greasy cow!

I was about to mention the same thing as JM regarding the quartering to you shot placement suggestion, gut shot for sure.
As for a head on chest shot, if I were coaching a beginner I'd strongly discourage such shots. There's only a 5'' or so spot where the bullet has to go in order to make a clean kill and a gnats whisker off the result will be a wounded deer that in all probability will end up dying a lingering death far from where it was shot. In fact I try to discourage myself from taking such shots but it don't always take. Here's a pic of the first one I shot this year, notice the red spot behind the shoulder. That's the entrance wound, bullet exited out the hindquarter. The deer was facing me head on and the crosshairs were dead center of it's chest when I let fly. It was very alert to my presence, I don't know if he saw the muzzle flash or was just turning to go over the hill but he turned that much in the time it took the bullet to travel the 100 or so yards to where he stood. It was raining pretty good that day and I consider myself lucky to have recovered him.
On broadsides I ''cross the T'', that is I place the horizontal line of the crosshair 4-5 inches below the hairline on the back and the vertical is lined up with the front leg. This breaks the spine and down they go, DRT.
Edit: After thinking about it some I'd try to discourage a beginner from taking any shot other than a full broadside until they learned to manage their composure. Patience is one of the most important lessons learned in this game.

I agree fully with the point of impact photo for the side view (upper left) and frontal view (lower right). Upper center is too far to the left in my opinion and lower center might be a hair too far to the right.

As for when to shoot or not shoot, depends on the shooter. My 12 year old daughter shot her first deer at about 300 yards as it slowly walked along a fence row. Her second deer at 13 was about 150 yards and uphill. She was using a 6mm single shot Ruger. My younger daughter I would have never suggested she attempt either of those shots. She most likely would not have hit either deer. Typically, our shots are rarely farther than 50-75 yards. The two my oldest daughter shot were very unusual for us, both were field shots and we don't usually hunt in fields. They were targets of opportunity. With both I ensured she took the time to seat herself on the ground, get her knee up and take her time.

Waiting can be an issue where I live. If you wait, you may lose the deer to someone else. Sad but true. I've seen it happen, twice to me. No deer is worth getting in a fight over either so I just left them have them. For that reason, I do my best to shoot the deer in the neck. I don't recommend that to a kid however.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Have even engaged in some short range staredowns with no harm to either party. It makes for great memories and rather less work.

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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201929558177133
Speeking of short range thought some might find this interesting if a bit sad.

No doubt who won that fight that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

No doubt who won that fight that's for sure.

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I just wonder why he stuck around. Still miffed at the dead competition? Curious about the crazy dudes who freed him? Just completely gassed?

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I just wonder why he stuck around. Just completely gassed?

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Completely smoked would be my guess. Surprised though, that he didn't try to walk away - 2 guys that close had to be burning up his nose!

Steve

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Originally Posted by gpw42

Completely smoked would be my guess. Surprised though, that he didn't try to walk away - 2 guys that close had to be burning up his nose!

Steve

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They said it was within the city limits and having hunted deer in somewhat urban areas I think they get somewhat (only somewhat) aclimated to human scent. Not that aclimated though. I vote gassed/smoked.

I am going to tell them to take the broadside shot. The other shots will come later. Now, if I could get the fathers to cooperate!