Demiled Bren Reciver

Here a some quick pictures of my '43 Mk1* Enfield receiver. There is a complete kit with a later MK1 lower and MK2 wood. There was also a very nice MK1 adjustable bipod with Enfield markings on it. Looks to have a earlier style gas piston, bolt and bolt carrier are Enfield. This will be brought back to life as a semi-auto in the next few months. This receiver was cut in good locations for a re-weld. These are getting harder to find around here.

Attachment 47610Attachment 47611Attachment 47612Attachment 47613Attachment 47614

Do they have to be gas flame Oxy torch cut? Would be better (?) if they were water jet or even gas axed by someone who knew how to wield a gas torch decently

Am not sure of specifics, but at some point the BATFE (a strange and confusing branch of the US government that regulates guns, beer and cigars) changed the requirements to de-activate a firearm. There used to be all kinds of saw cut kits available that would be so much easier to work with. Parts kits like I pictured above are considered to be "good" compared to many that were cut through the trunnion area, locking block, and the magazine release. Most are more work to rebuild than they are worth.

What's worse now gun barrels can't be imported without being cut, drilled, or plugged. Apparently foreign made gun parts are some how more dangerous than ones made here in the US. ???

It makes me sad to see so many firearms get torched, especially Bren's. From my perspective you just can't appreciate the craftsmanship of these guns until you hold parts in your hands. I hate having to bastardize the poor thing into a semi auto, but its the only way I can rebuild it without having a manufacturer's license and a ton of extra paperwork.

Peter,

ATF regs have required that the demill cuts are done with a torch displacing 1/4" per cut. The latest demills are cut at the rear, thru the locking shoulder area and thru the barrel socket. Very difficult, but not impossible to rebuild. Older "IO" type demills have the rear cut, a cut thru the mag well and a cut thu barrel nut area. Bentwrench's demill is a variation of the "IO" with the front cut thru the gas tube rather than the barrel nut area. I have never seen a saw cut Bren demill. If they exist they are rare.

Even with the current barrel restrictions, working Bren barrels are not difficult to find here in the States. I recently acqured an exellent Bren Mk II . 303 barrel and had it rebored and rechambered for 8mm Mauser (7.92X57) for a Bren caliber conversion project.

Would love to rebuild to Full Auto but that is not in the cards here in the US.

Joe

So a question comes to mind how do the guys from Dusty Creek or Knob Creek shoot get on as I have seen the clips, twin MG-42's, Browning 50's & 30's, Vickers 303, Mini guns, 20mm, 37 anti tank gun, 25 pounder and not to be out done a troop rocks up with an M- 10 TD and lets loose with it and the muzzle blast causing all sorts of mayhem on the line.

In another clip on the tube there is a Vickers firing incendiary rounds like a full 250 rounds every one of them if you cannot have a full auto weapon then where's the restrictions at these venues, especially the night shoot with full tracer, so what is the drill Joe H just curious. :confused:

Two ways to own an automatic in the US. We have to follow the National Firearms Act (NFA)

1st are what we call fully transferable MG's. These are guns that were added to the NFA registry prior to 1986. Since then no new weapons have been added to the registry. Because of this transferable MG's are in high demand and are very expensive. A transferable Bren gun would start at $20,000 and go up from there, nice examples of early Mk1 Brens on tripods can cross $100,000 at auction (Several were observed doing so this summer). There is a $200 transfer tax that must be paid when transferable guns change hands. This tax also applies to silencers, short barrel rifles, etc. The paper work to do this can take 4 to 6 months to clear. These MG's can also be classified as curio and relics which can eliminate the need for a dealer to dealer transfer.

The second way is what we call demo or dealer samples. A licensed manufacturer can build automatics if they have a demo letter from law enforcement or the military. They are called dealer samples and if the demo gun was built before May of 1986 the gun can be kept by the owner after their manufacturing license has expired but it can only be sold to other dealers and licensed manufacturers. Guns made after may of 1986 must be sold or destroyed if an individual's license expires. These are often called "pre-May" and "post May" dealer samples. These guns are much less expensive than transferable MG's but they cannot be owned by most people.

There is more to it that simple explanation I gave above, and State law trumps federal law with regard MG's. Some states do not allow them at all. Or any other NFA item.

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Here is a good example of the real cost of transferable machine guns in the US. This collection sold at auction earlier this year. The prices are sobering to say the least....


4/30/2013 - Firearms and Militaria: Richard L. Wray Collection - Live Salesroom Auction - Cowan's Auctions

Cinders,

I couldn't have explained it any better than bentwrench. Here in the US the Firearms act of 1986 changed everthing for FA. Prior to 1986 you could buy a FA Tommy Gun for $250 plus the $200 tax stamp and you had a Legal FA. Now a legal fully transferable Tommy Gun starts at 20 K and goes up to 40 -50k for a 1921 Colt.

Joe

I assume the centre body section is from another gun, perhaps to close the gaps created by the torch cuts? The serial number on the rear of the body is from a 1942 gun whereas the date shown is 1943, there are occasionally oddities with the production year/serials but I don't think it applies here.

It looks like it's matched to the 1943 proof-dated front/trunnion block part too.

A W- serial number Mk1 gun is also interesting in a strange cock-up sort of way as they are duplicated with Daimler Mk2's.
Is anyone interested in a short resume of how all this came about? It's what you call a total lack of communication between different departments......., each trying to blame the other. So much so, that the paper trail becomes almost indecipherable!

The lack of finish on the center receiver section makes me think it is a mixed kit. It could be that all 4 parts are from different receivers and were pieced together to make a buildable kit. If the rear serial number is from a '42 dated gun then I doubt just the center section is an imposter.

I guess it will be a FrakenBren when its done.

Thanks for the reply bentwrench if they are costing that then an operable tank destroyer would be worth squilions, here is a pic I have of a gun room in private hands in the USA I cannot find the other 3 that go with it but I guess the owner is fairly well stocked eh what....or it may be Peter Laidlers place do not know but either way very very impressive complete with mini range out the back..........:super:

Certainly has a soft spot for BAR's and a very understanding wife:):)

Cinder that photo illustrates the effect of the NFA act of 1986. Large multi-million dollar collections are often common and they are kept in the family in a legal trust or they are sold when the collector passes away. Each one of those BAR's is worth around $30,000 give or take. If your very wealthy the extreme cost of a transferable automatic is of no concern. America's laws on machine guns have made them a class privilege. As if to say the wealthy can be trusted with them and the rest of us cannot?

Not all MG's are that expensive, UZI's, machine pistols like M11's, Stemple takedown guns, and Reising's can be forund for 4-6,000 when they come up for sale.

Semi-auto builds cost a small fraction of their full auto counterparts, so my Bren project is a close I will get to owning a real one.

I think this is one of the gun rooms that was owned by the now deceased Connecticut lawyer and gun collector Bruce Stern. There were rumours going around that it was Charlton Hestons gun room but it is not.

El Cid no less..........now he was a real gun lover RIP

Still a dam mighty fine collection the other pics has a sprawling house with a twin prop aircraft out the front allot bigger than your beachcraft think it was a high wing as well.....and the others just different angles I will see if I can dig them up the one I posted was my screen saver for allot of years till a few comments wound there way through the chain of command as inappropriate material!!!!!!!
Ahhh the anti gun lovers they really are our best mates. (not)

I would image that if I should a wake up and find myself in a room like that I must have died and found Heaven.

That is an awesome collection no doubt, note the M60's to the right.... wow just wow.

To those who know, is this collection still intact?

What'd be the going rate for the Thompson guns on the top left side? I let my son fire a drum full at work one day when he was very small. Remembers it to this day - as you would! Funny how range days with some of this kit, like the Boys and a Vickers were just another chore when you could do it most days...........

For some years the Smithsonian wanted a very early ex IRA Colt Thompson from us. It was all cleared at our end but it was never chased up. We did give some SA80's L85's and 86's away to Australia, NZ and India and one of each to the BATF

Price depends on manufacturer and condition etc. They could easily be worth $40,000 or more.

The FG-42, if it is a real one, would be six-figure gun easily. And exceptionally rare.

40,000 for a Thompson......... Phew! Yep, FG42. We had one of them too and a couple that we could and regularly did fire at Shrivenham. Muzzle flash that you could only describe as awsome. Even worse than the SA80 carbine

The FG-42 is probably one of history's most over rated weapons, innovative as it was, it certainly was not without fault. SMG in Texas makes a semi-auto version of the FG-42 however they use a machined receiver.

Say Peter did you ever have an EM-2 cross your path? I believe the designation was No.9MK1

EM's, Yep. We had two or three of them. There is some dispute about the designation, whether it's a No9 or a No10 rifle. One of the provisional handbooks has been amended from No9 to No10 with an amendment date too. Another report says that press coverage of the particular rifle should be referred to as a No10. I wonder whether the 7.62 variant was to be a No9 - or 10 or vice verca. VERY overrated Like giving a soldier a Triumph GT6 Pi system and telling him to strip and assemble it. On second thoughts, it wouldn't be as simple as that! Jusy my opinion

Yep, that's Bruce's collection. He always treated me like I was somebody and presented a display award for 7.62 Lees I did for the NRA Annual Meetings in Pittsburgh, PA back in 2004. Good people.

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The majority were auctioned off a couple of years ago.