Left the 300 Blackout camp....

I briefly took a trip into the 300 Blackout. I loved it, BUT ammo is totally unaffordable. Even reloading cost 3X to 4X more at least than 5.56. Correct bullets cost about $200 or more for 500 - when you can even find them. I found I almost stopped plinking when I made the switch, because I didn't know when I could afford to load more at .75 to .80 a round.

I am on a disability retirement, and only working part time now. I just could not afford to shoot the .300. I sold off the 300 and went back to 5.56. I have my Retro 20" SP1/602 clone and will build "one piece at a time" a super light weight KISS carbine with early CAR15 fiberlite stock, 16" pencil barrel and slick side SP1/604 upper. Hopefully I'll find a 1/7" twist pencil barrel I can afford so I can shoot MK262 Mod 1, occasionally.

I forgot to mention that I have since picked up a PTR-91 .308 HK clone. That is expensive enough to feed, and fills the bill for what I intended the 300 BLK to fill. I don't need two expensive ones. I guess I should have mentioned that, too.

After your last series of posts on the 300 BO I did some research and concluded it would be best if I stuck to the 5.56 or, maybe a 7.62 X 39 build.

Amen, Bill. I researched the 300 BLK extensively before I switched, BUT as stupid as it sounds, I never really researched how much it would cost to feed it! I knew factory ammo was through the roof, but never counted on the cost of the specialized .308 projectiles needed. I am used to loading lead 45 ACP and 30 Carbine, and cheap 55 grn FMJ .223s. When I finally found the 125 grain BLK projectiles, it was $200 with shipping for 500 of the cheap ones! The Hornady were quite a bit more. Once I got the .308 too, I knew I would be loath to load two expensive rifle calibers.

I really am a fan of the 5.56, though. WHat the 5.56 won't do, my PTR91 .308 will. I am a fan of the MK262 Mod 1, 77 grain OTMBT. It has the thump of the 6.8 and 300 BLK at range, but needs a 1/7" twist barrel. That would still be cheaper to load than the 300 BLK!

Said it before, come on over to the Dark side.!!..it's a cheap date..;)

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

Said it before, come on over to the Dark side.!!..it's a cheap date..;)

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Hahaha! Are you referring to the AK platform????? Been there, done that. I would restore Saigas to "real" intended configuration just for fun. Settled on ARs and M1 Carbines (and now G3 clone) when I moved back to Kalifornication! My favorite AK was a tie between a Folding stock Yugo M70 and a Saiga restored to AK103 trim.

Reminds me of when I bought my first Deer Rifle. My friends had 7mm Mags and .270s and I chose the the old '06 . They both asked why as the 7mm and the .270 were flatter shooters . Easy I said Ammo availability . I can be in Bum Frick Idaho and they will have 30.06 there for sure . My new to shooting friends ask me what caliber they should get for their toys. Easy i said anything the Military or Government uses . It may be lean right now but in the future there will be Surplus ammo and brass . Hopefully !

I think I was intoxicated by the exotic aspects 300 BLK, and its superiority at 200 yards to the 5.56. Now that I have a .308 semi-auto PTR91, it will kick the 300 BLK's @ss at 200, 300, and beyond. I actually like the feel of the PTR91/G3 HK platform. I admit the Kalifornication legal Kydex grip paddle sucks, but it does allow me to use my "legally possessed in California before 1-1-2000" 20 round G3 magazines.... Since the photos, I have put a G3 magazine button on it and dug out my G3 mags..

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...79cb3eea-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d72baa79-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by kosmolinekid

Reminds me of when I bought my first Deer Rifle. My friends had 7mm Mags and .270s and I chose the the old '06 . They both asked why as the 7mm and the .270 were flatter shooters . Easy I said Ammo availability . I can be in Bum Frick Idaho and they will have 30.06 there for sure . My new to shooting friends ask me what caliber they should get for their toys. Easy i said anything the Military or Government uses . It may be lean right now but in the future there will be Surplus ammo and brass . Hopefully !

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I can regularly pick up 223/5.56 brass at backwoods shooting spots. Lately I picked up 500 once fired 223 left by a shooter who was there with me who was bragging about only paying $1 a round! That was at the height of the hysteria shortages and gouging prices. Reloading the 5.56, I haven't paid more than $0.35 a round for ammo, whether factory (or the cost on my components during the shortages). Fortunately 55 Grain .224 FMJBT projectiles are fairly cheap. I still have about 800 55s, with about the same number of CCI #41 primers and 3 pounds of IMR-4198 waiting to be loaded up.

Yep I have the components too it's the powder that's the problem . IMR powders are too hot for me (heat wise) so I use the old Win 748 for my reloads . My Howa I use IMR 4198 though . i owned 2 HK 91s back in the day sold them because of the ban . They had one of the worst triggers on any rifle I've owned . They ate any ammo I fed it and it kicked that Brass out hard . The Brass had those neat striations left by the chamber . I have an L1A1 now it's more temperamental with the ammo but a classic.

I had two FALs: one a Century L1A1 (piece of junk) and one Argentine FMAP. The Century could not hit a pie plate at 50 yards. It also used to blow out cartridge case bases regularly- blowing all the rounds out of the bottom of the magazine, even though headspace checked OK. The Argentine was a great shooter, but terribly picky about ammo. Never found a load that worked 100% except South Africa stuff for the R-1. I sold it too, as I could not rely on it for a LEO trunk weapon. I had a CETME years ago and really liked the feel, but did not like the sights. I LOVE the PTR91 with the polymer Navy grip. Long trigger pull, but VERY smooth with a crisp let off after a slight staging of the pull.

As for IMR 4198, I love it for the 55 grain .223 loads. IIRC 21.5 grains duplicates factory 223. I am not worried about getting the extra 75-100 fps of 5.56 loads. I loaded 223 with it back in the 80s when all we had were 55s and lighter. I get 1 MOA on a good day.

I took a long hard look at the .300 Blackout and the .30 Remington AR but I already have a 6.8 SPC so decided against getting another oddball. The 6.8 is pricey enough to feed (brass is outrageous) as it is but since I only shoot it during hunting season it isn't too bad. I did end up getting another 5.56 carbine since I had a pile of 20 and 30 round mags taking up space. Kinda wish now I'd just sold the mags when they were going for $150 each because I've come to the conclusion the gun is jinxed. I've carried it on numerous outings all season and have only had the chance to LOOK at one deer through the scope 1st day. A crabby old doe ran him off before I could take the shot.

I load for everything anyway, so cost of factory ammo doesn't factor in. I agree though, too expensive to buy...

The 300 BLK was costing me about $0.85 a round to reload! I can get Factory new Lake City 5.56 for less than $0.50 a round.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

$0.85 a round

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You must be using premium components...I have stuff stockpiled too. Some of it I can't even remember what I payed, got it before the last shortage.

The 300 BLK uses a very long bullet to function. Regular 125s are sketchy feeding. The Sierra 125 fo the Blackout is base heavy and very long. They were $175/500 plus shipping. Powder in my area is at least $35 a pound, with two pounds needed. Primers are about $8 a hundred. Brass was about $0.25 a piece to modify 223 brass.

Your primers are VERY expensive by comparison. Here it would be about $50 CDN per 1000, 220 gr RN bullets are the worst of the cost at almost $50 per hun, powder is about $50 also per lb and I have brass from factory firing so I figure that's paid...BUT, I have components that have been sitting here since primers were $25 per thou and so on. Otherwise, I could be hooped...

You guys are making me feel better, 1lb powder= $27, 1000 CCI LR= $37, both have gone up $2 since the panic.

I haven't gotten into the rifle reloading yet but I did just buy 8 pounds of Hogdon Titewad for shot gun loading. I got it for $115.00. Rifle powder is still up there when you can find it!

It costs me just under double to load what it did just a few short years ago. Prices in California for powder and primers are terrible, if you can even find them.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

It costs me just under double to load what it did just a few short years ago. Prices in California for powder and primers are terrible, if you can even find them.

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No one will ship there? I never really read the disclaimers, you know the ones I'm talking about but I do see CA,MA,NJ,etc.

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

No one will ship there? I never really read the disclaimers, you know the ones I'm talking about but I do see CA,MA,NJ,etc.

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This true for quite a few items. I understand their reasoning however the enthusiast living in those states pays dearly for their policies and the law. For some it is just that, policy. It is part state laws too. I think that the vendors are trying to stay out of the legal fray by simply not doing business in restricted states.

Now, all that said I really do not want this to turn to a political state bashing so shall we leave it at that? :thup:

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Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger

shall we leave it at that?

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Roger that.

I'm just glad that no matter what the current situation. I stocked enough to get me through until things level out. I had problems last time, when was that? Three years ago? I've always bought components regardless of need. Good deals are good deals. Not for re-sale. I guess I'll be one of those old guys at a gunshow some day, tons of old components for sale on his table. Dying of something and no time to use everything up. Either that or touch a match to it and go all at once...(local spectacle)

No intention to go there, truly don't know if the shipped or not like I said I haven't read one.

I think it is a matter of supply and demand in California. There are about 39 million people in the state, and only about 5 -10% of the FFLs now that there were 10-15 years ago. Cal DOJ has been on a crusade to put dealers out of business, and are succeeding. I had an FFL for 25 years, but did not renew in 2006 due to the draconian requirements instituted by the state since my prior renewal. That limits the sources for powder and primers (etc.) since few large chain sporting goods stores exist in unfriendly Kalifornistan. In a 50 mile radius of me, only two shops have powder and primers generally, and one more occasionally has some. During the post sandy Hook panic of the last year, they have had next to nothing in stock, with regular customers waiting there when UPS arrives and paying the price, no matter how high.

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

No one will ship there? I never really read the disclaimers, you know the ones I'm talking about but I do see CA,MA,NJ,etc.

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Unfortunately a VERY high percentage of distributors and vendors refuse to ship ANYTHING to California, including ammo, powder, etc. I wrote one vendor and asked why, and he replied with a vitriolic rant on how stupid I was for living in the state, so it was my fault....

Good insight for those of us outside...

It is not so much the availability of powder or primers for me it is the HAZMAT fees . Powder and primers can be found online it's just that expensive fee .

Wonder what California resident Georgie Patton would have thought about this?

Bob