Anybody on here had this scope pass through their hands at any time or have any clues as to the whereabouts of said scope?:sos:
Cheers,
Simon.
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Anybody on here had this scope pass through their hands at any time or have any clues as to the whereabouts of said scope?:sos:
Cheers,
Simon.
It was a standard No32 Mk3 when I dealt with it.......
That's Odd:confused: Was that recently Peter?
Has it ever been known for scope serial numbers to be duplicated? I've been asked a question about an L42 (which is listed) and been quoted that serial number from the wrist of the rifle?
Many scope numbers are notoriously hard to interpret with certainty - a '5' that could easily be a '3', or a '6' that could be an '8'. Has the third party just told you the serial or have they sent a photo of it as stamped into the butt? Without casting aspersions on the owner's eyesight it might be worth having a look at a photo yourself (if feasible to get one)!
ATB
Have seen (and held) an L42 that has the rifle serial No on the butt (not the scope No), its the real McCoy and does check out.
Had a look last night to see if I had the scope No, of the one that was in an auction last year but only found the rifle # (I did make a note of the scope #, as it was not mentioned in the auction catalogue), the scope looked a bit erm.......well, not quite right, I guess this has been turned round and come back in the market with some form of story. Just waiting conformation regarding the movements of the said rifle....
Dukey, I've seen a few No4T's & L42's with the rifle number instead of or as well as the scope number on the wrist of the butt. Have also seen a few with scope number in the usual place & rifle number as well, stamped on the underside of the butt behind the S51. I presumed the vagaries of confused armourers not possessed of Peter's clarity of vision!
ATB
I have never known a scope number to be duplicated, never, ever. But I ain't seen 'em all! I have seen some/many with the number over engraved as though to highlight an indistinct number including one where the old number was still(?) partially visible and the new number was over engraved as 23xxx instead of 25xxx. So on that basis, 23xxx COULD be duplicated. like I say, we never obliterated numbers as this usually leads to suspicions and questions.
I hope to view the rifle in question over the weekend so with luck I'll have a better handle on it then. How long ago did you work on the scope though Peter? Obviously post L42 conversion? which still leaves me a bit confused as to the fact it was a bog standard 32 MkIII?
Thanks Rog, think we did discuss it at Brum, but worth a mention as gives us novices a better understanding etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
Knocked this out to help myself recently on buying an L42 hope its of help to others, I am sure I have missed a couple of important points like the Magazine
AIDE MEMOIRE AND QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE ON THE LOCATIONS AND AUTHENTICITY OF NUMBERS FOUND ON THE L42A1 ENFIELD RIFLE CONVERSIONS
STARTING FROM THE BUTT TO THE TIP OF THE BARREL
1. THE BUTT PLATE COULD BE EITHER SILVER COLOURED ALLOY OR WAS COMMONLY BRASS AND SHOULD
INCLUDE A BUTT TRAP WHERE THE OIL BOTTLE AND PULL THROUGH COULD BE HOUSED
2. THE BUTT SHOULD HAVE A MKII SLING SWIVEL FITTED.
3. IN THE CONVERSION PROCESS FROM A 4T RIFLE TO AN L42A1 THE “S51” LETTERS OF
HOLLAND & HOLLAND MAY HAVE BEEN STRUCK ON THE RIDGE OF THE UNDERSIDE OF THE
HAND GRIP IN ¼” LETTERS. THIS IS NOT ALWAYS EVIDENT.
4. THE SCOPE ISSUED TO THE RIFLE AT THE TIME OF ITS “PAIRING” WOULD HAVE HAD ITS
NUMBER STAMPED ON THE TOP SURFACE OF THE WRIST AND IN MANY CASES THE
ENFIELD EXAMINERS NUMBER WOULD HAVE STAMPED A “T” NEXT TO THE EJECTOR
SCREW SIGNIFYING A NO32 MK 111 TELESCOPE HAD BEEN FITTED AND HAD MET ALL THE
INSPECTION LEVELS. THESE MARKS ARE ONLY EVER EVIDENT ON NO4 RIFLES CONVERTED
TO SNIPER RIFLES.
The War Office issued instructions under(Army Council Instruction 399 of 1944, dated 31 May 1944) which addressed the fact that some
rifles had left the factories without the (T) designator marked on the rifles. Units were ordered to apply this mark locally to those affected
rifles. It therefore follows that not all were marked at unit level after these instructions were made."
5. A WOODEN BEECH CHEEK PIECE WAS FITTED TO ALL NORMAL LENGTH RIFLES CONVERTED
12 ¼” INCHES USING A 1 ¼” INCH WOOD SCREW IN THE FRONT AND A 1 ½” INCH WOOD
SCREW IN THE REAR.
6. THE RIFLE SERIAL NUMBER AS WE TRAVEL FORWARD WILL BE STAMPED ON THE REAR
FLAT OF THE BOLT HANDLE. THE PROOF MARK 19 T WITH OR WITHOUT CROSSED FLAGS WILL BE EVIDENT ON:
1) BOLT HANDLE
2) BOLT HEAD
3) RECEIVER
ALL 3 ITEMS WILL BE STAMPED ON GENUINE L42A1'S
7. LOOKING AT THE BACK SIGHT FROM THE REAR, THE REAR BATTLE SIGHT WOULD HAVE
BEEN GROUND FLAT TO ALLOW THE TELESCOPE TO SIT AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. AN 1/8”
“S” COULD BE EVIDENT ON THE FLAT METAL ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BODY TO
SIGNIFY THAT FOLLOWING CONVERSION THE IRON SIGHTS DID NOT NEED TO BE RE
CALIBRATED
8. THERE SHOULD BE A LETTER M MARKED ON THE SIDE OF THE REAR SIGHT AND 1250
STAMPED ON THE SIDE BUT AGAIN NOT ALWAYS EVIDENT
9. ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BUTT METAL SOCKET THERE SHOULD BE AN OBVIOUS OR FADED
YEAR OF MANUFACTURE AND SERIAL NUMBER AND THERE MAY BE PRESENT A “TR” STAMP BUT THIS DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING REGARDING THE
NO4T TO L42A1 CONVERSION. IN A LARGE NUMBER OF CASES THE ORIGINAL NUMBERS/ AND MANUFACTURERS MARKS ie M47C HAVE BEEN “FLATTENED” AND/OR
REMOVED, BUT IN MANY CASES THEY CAN BE FAINTLY SEEN IN THE METALWORK UNDER A MAGNIFYING GLASS.
10. MOVING FORWARD THE REAR PAD SHOULD HAVE TWO FLAT HEAD 4BA SCREWS AND
BOTH SHOULD BE STAKED. (A single stake mark on all screws suggests the rifle was newly
converted and not refinished) More than one stake per screw head, indicates the pad had been
removed or replaced, either for repair or overhaul.
11. JUST IN FRONT OF THE EJECTOR SCREW COULD BE THE LETTER “T” STAMPED AS AT 4 ABOVE BUT MAY HAVE BEEN REMOVED ON THE CLEAN
UP
12. MOVING FORWARD ON THE FLAT OF THE ACTION ON THE LEFT SIDE THE LETTERS
L42A1D71 WITH A PUNCH MARK EVIDENT ON THE UPRIGHT OF THE D SYMBOL THIS IS
THE ENFIELD LOGO AND DIFFICULT TO REPRODUCE FALSELY.
13. MOVING FORWARD FROM THAT THE FRONT PAD SHOULD HAVE THREE RAISED HEAD
4BA SCREWS THIS PAD WAS SWEATED ON, ALL OF WHICH AGAIN SHOULD BE STAKED
CLEARLY AGAINST EACH SCREW.
14. JUST IN FRONT OF THE FORWARD PAD COULD BE A SMALL SYMBOL WITH A CROWN
WITH BNP UNDER IT, THIS RELATES TO THE BIRMINGHAM PROOF HOUSE.
15. DIRECTLY BELOW THE WOODWORK AND IMMEDIATELY IN FRONT OF THE MAGAZINE
HOUSING SHOULD BE A SLING SWIVEL.
16. WITH THE SCOPE BRACKET FITTED ONE CLEAR NUMBER SHOULD BE EVIDENT IDENTIFYING
THE RIFLE NUMBER. THERE MAY BE OTHER NUMBERS ON THE ALLOY BUT CROSSED OUT
SHOWING PREVIOUS RIFLES IT WAS USED ON.
17. THE SCOPE MOUNTS WILL NORMALLY BE STAMPED IN CONSECUTIVE NUMBERS
EG: 630 AND 631
18. THE UPPER DRUM OF THE TELESCOPIC SIGHT WOULD HAVE AN “M” MARKED ON IT
TO SIGNIFY IT IS IN METRIC MEASUREMENT
19. ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CHORDEL BARREL JUST IN FRONT OF THE FORWARD SLING
SWIVEL SHOULD BE THE FOLLOWING LETTERS AND SYMBOLS:
CROWN OVER BNP 7.62 X 51 4680 BAR CROSSED SWORDS WITH LETTERS VC EITHER SIDE
THE BARREL FITTED TO THE L42 ON CONVERSION WILL BE A HAMMER FORGED HEAVY BARREL WITH A "SNAKE SKIN" APPEARANCE.
20. THE FORE SITE AND PROTECTOR SHOULD READ THE INITIALS PH FOR PARKER HALE
RWS Engineering has one for sale, looks very nice but can not afford there £12K asking price:
Full Bore Rifles - The Devizes Gunsmith
I think that particular L42 will be gathering dust at that price sadly, the brush is missing in the plastic container.
#9 Gil, needs to be put right regarding the TR.
Roger that worded it slighty different, hope that reads right now
Gil, ref point 11. I've looked at a fair few L42's and the original "T" next to the ejector screw is never always there I think it's hit and miss and depended a lot on how close it was to the surface area that had to be prepped for the L42A1 designation. If too close then it was bead blasted or ground off.
Worth starting this list, as it will hopefully give us most of the important checklist for the L42 when considering buying a real one, with everybody's useful additions and amendments.
That is of course if we trust in all the engineers doing their bits consistently over the past years, which we know they didn't.
Thanks and will amend at anytime if anybody has any other further views
a couple other points that you may wish to correct to avoid confusion are:
#1. Base plate should read Butt plate
#6. S/N stamped on rear of bolt face, should read s/n stamped on rear flat of bolt handle
#7 the small ''s'' is not always present. (Or so I'm told)
#14 &19 regarding BNP proof markings. I believe the only ones that will have these are the ones sold in or exported back to the U.K. Mine has no U.K. proof markings at all except the 19T markings it's supposed to have, only import marks.
Might be worth mentioning the 19T markings and as obvious as it might sound, the hammer forged heavy barrel with its "snake skin" appearance.
Amended and thanks for that, as I said it was just a quick guide I knocked up for myself when I went to buy an L42, and I am sure others on the site will glean the salient points should they need to use it in the future. Take on board the Import/Export markings of the BNP but this then contradicts Ian Skennertons book, or maybe I misread it!!
Chosenman,
Good point don't know why I missed them off my list above I have them written down............. well spotted. I hold the Mulled Wine responsible as I get into the silly season ha ha!!
It's certainly a useful guide but be careful not to interpret it too prescriptively. A genuine L42 may have had it's 19T bolt head replaced by a non-engraved but perfectly fitting example in civilian ownership; a genuine rifle might be encountered occasionally with a machined pattern butt swivel - just a couple of examples. Also, PH were by no means the only suppliers of foresight protectors - many 4T's bore Singer manufactured examples (eg SM42, SM43, N67) & unless they were unserviceable they probably continued to 'wear them' in L42 guise.
Please don't think I'm criticising - just saying use lists such as this as a guide, but don't jump to too many conclusions if one particular detail isn't quite as your list says it should be - ask on the forum if possible, as someone will certainly be able to help. None of us want to be caught out by a fake, but, ironically, I find myself giving opinions to people increasingly frequently of late, where they suspect fakery in a perfectly correct rifle.
Just my tuppence worth.
ATB.
Wise words there DRP. VERY wise words.....
Roger,
Agree totally with that, which in fact was one reason why I knocked it up for my own references, but thought it useful for others considering the same path in purchasing what is fast becoming an expensive rifle.
As stated earlier on the thread, it does appear on occasions that those charged with stamping these rifles, (and there weren't that many in comparison to the thousands produced in the wider Lee Enfield family) seemed to stamp willy nilly on occasions, which is why we are where we are in trying to have a cohesive, but flexible list to identify wrong ones!!!
What I have listed is available in wider speak, on many forums, and even some of those have it wrong, so it is good to bounce it off a group of people that are passionate about authenticity.
If we are to use the adage "Buy the rifle not the history" one has to know what to look for in my book anyway.
Interesting words from DRP - and I tend to agree. Surely there'd be far more fake rifles posted on here if there were so many in circulation. To produce a genuinely semi convincing fake is incredible difficult and I reckon it's far less widespread than people seem to believe. I would think most of the fakery surrounds the 'all matching' rifles - based on genuine equipment. Far and away most threads here asking 'is this a fake' are met with the answer 'no'. There are a lot of 4T rifle actions around which seem to have had new wood furniture - but they aren't fake. There were a few examples of people trying to pass off the repro scopes as genuine, but in most cases this was spotted, and I haven't seen it happen for some time now.
As the thread has been successfully diverted onto a completely different track I'd like to steer it back onto it's original course.
I'd be interested to know how long ago the scope passed over you work bench please Peter? I realise this might be a daft question and I'm sure you would have noticed but could it have still been marked as a 32 MkIII but had metric turrets?
Simon.
Simon,
Apologies old chap, my fault entirely, I'll get out of the Signal Box now :surrender::surrender:
Moderators........is it possible to remove the L42 list to another part of the site please with the comments related to nit, so those that want to comment further on what they find on their L42's or anything helpful to others who want to buy one, can go under one banner as it could interfere with the original post about a scope, if others post hereafter
Thanks Merry Christmas
26144 L1A1, fitted to L42 AF 0965 Scots Gds. I have erector cell!
26150 Repaired by me for xxx, 4/08. On a fake bracket numbered 37291
26151 Fitted to No4T AR1018
26153 L1A1 on L42 X32315 Mob Stores Thatcham
26159 MINE,
With respect Siomon, you might have read a couple of days ago that my computer had gone down. As a result I wasn't able to get into my database.
Here is what is recorded against 26151 and a few of its close brethren
Apologies Peter, I must Have missed that. I'm on my way to look at the rifle in question so will report on it later.
Well I've now seen the rifle in the flesh and kind of hoped that the scope number noted was a typo / reading error!
Have to say I'm now baffled as the woodwork doesn't look to have been replaced and the serial number 26151 is clearly stamped on the wrist and is also recorded in chalk on the inside lid of the transit chest.
Answers / opinions / theories on a post card please??????
Surely, the REAL question must be then what caused you to have doubts and ask the question in the first instance. Something MUST have clicked somewhere that prompted you to ask. You say that you have seen the rifle....., and the chest.......... But have you seen the scope?
Who has No4T AR -1018?
Simon,
My apologies if I'm a bit slow here or missed something, but in all of this Lee Enfield fiasco in its history of numbering anomalies and weird locations for such numbers, the one cohesive thing you could bet your shirt tails on was invariably the wrist number matching the scope, because afterall that is what it was all about............a perfect match.
Clearly this would have been right at the time, and lots of changes could have varied that in the meantime. Was the AR-1018 stamped on the wrist band evident? if it was , one has to assume the two were parted somewhere in history for whatever reason.
Could it be as simple as, one of the rifles that went to the USA and parted company there with its scope on sale to civvy RFD's, which a number did?
Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
I heard about this rifle about six months ago and at the time the finances weren't in place for a potential purchase, however a couple of months down the line I made a few more enquiries. The story goes that the rifle came into the RFD as part of a collection following a bereavement. It was in it's chest but the scope and bracket where missing and when he enquired the widow told him her Husband had sent it away to be fixed but had no idea where to!
As I'm thinking of buying the rifle albeit sans scope and bracket I thought it might be worth a punt on the various forums to see if anyone new of the scopes whereabouts. What has completely baffled me is that you've got that scope number recorded as a standard 32 mkIII.
Having viewed the rifle and checked out the serial number against my data I can safely say that it is a genuine bona fide L42. Unfortunately having now seen the scope serial 26151 clearly stamped on the wrist and chalked in the chest lid and you recording that number as a 32 MkIII I don't know what to bloody think?
Next thing is to check with all of the scope repairers then. The other scenario would be that with a thick dollop of paint over many years, the scope number has been misread, say, from 25451 to 26151. It does happen and such a mistake would have no consequences in the great Ordnance scheme of things as it's the rifle serial number that is the identifiable and accountable item.
Not only do I have the scope numbered, it is also recorded against a No4T too AND against its registered number. I am not a number collector at all so being recorded in my database indicates that it's VERY probably been across my bench, work or wherever since I started a small book of numbers back in the 60's!
Simon,
Was this rifle perchance via Bob?
Simon,
Apart from stating the obvious, if it didn't go direct to the scope repairer's, Peter, Vallysniper or Warren, (no offence if I,ve missed anyone but if I have speak up) then can only have been dropped off at a local dealers or RFD to ship to the repairer maybe via someone else ? Other thing to consider, did it get to the said destination?
I would look for the deceased's club etc if he was in one (maybe just a collector),and ask a few members and go from there.
Seasons greetings.
Some good points there Gents, however way I see it now though is I've got little if no chance at all ever finding the missing scope now for a couple of reasons!
1) The fact the scope number on the wrist appears incorrectly marked, this means I can't look for or quote a specific scope number.
2) Call me an old cynic but if there is no record of where the scope went or as it would seem a correct serial number why would anyone step forward and say "hey I've got that scope" when it could very easily be disposed of for a considerable return?
BTW the second comment is not aimed at any of the "scope repairers" referred to above it's merely a reflection of the way things are these days, sadly.
As a matter of interest I have a scope here sent for repair some 9 years ago and it's still here, awaiting payment. From an earlier transaction whereby I used to use the 'send me the money when you're ready.......' sort of business - with the same person (yep....., still waiting for that too.....), this one will stay here. But with storeage charges now................
So some honest Johns WILL admit to having them Simon. And the whole world knows that 26151 is on the missing - wanted list. I'll enter it on my list accordingly. But it's already there as a Mk3!
You could just buy the rifle priced accordingly, get a DRP bracket that it could quite possibly have been fitted with during the last days of the old L42's and get a Mk3 scope. Have it converted (ooooouch!) fitted/collimated PROPERLY by someone who KNOWS what he's doing and there....., you've struck oil
It certainly is, It was a shock this year to find or maybe to help a forum member the true origins of his rifle, of course he is happy with it, but the fabricated story behind it was not needed and I'm sure he would just of been happy with the truth......Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon
Peter,
To be honest for the kind of money we're talking about I'd be daft not to buy it, scope missing or not. Once we've got the silly season out of the way it'll be mine and between you me and everyone else here I've already been in touch with Rog regarding the very thing you suggest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I sympathise with the fixer in these cases. After all, they've spent many hours repairing the things and then the person concerned can't be bothered to pay... There was a gunsmith near me, sadly closed now, which had two rifles, a sterling conversion no4 and a no5 a few years ago. The smithy had done his work on the rifles and they were in his gun room, and had been so for a number of years. The interesting thing was both had been drilled and tapped and sitting atop genuine brackets were two genuine no32 m3 scopes! I did check on the status... but sadly in the week before the gunsmith closed the owner reclaimed said rifles. (I think they'd been there for 5+ years)
OK, not going off the thread, but referring to an earlier entry by Peter has anybody got: 26144 L1A1
One has to assume it had wood changed and the sights changed along the way and probably accounts for the war damage to the rifle, between original issue and the Falklands war and its war damage, Peter servicing a different sight on the rifle and me buying it.
Closest I have seen
23154: 23148 and 23158
20147: 20137. There are a lot of ex Indian Army telescopes around these serial numbers
Peter,
Has 23154 gone through your hands for a referb, and the one that needed and erector cell you mentioned earlier??
23154, No
Going slightly off thread I have an L42A1 V32806, the serial number on the original rifle butt is telescope 25394 to which it was originally paired. When I removed the butt, it showed another rifle number of 39703. At some point in its life the woodwork, had been changed due to “battle damage” or just mechanical fault.
Interestingly I found years later that the V32806 scope mount had been found on another L42A1 rifle X32306 now supporting scope 23791, which originally had 18864 or 18738. Maybe it got mixed up at some point during refurbishment as the rifle numbers where very close, I don’t honestly know. But it dose show that these where “working rifles” and the main point was to keep them in the field putting round holes in square heads.
Later on in V32806 life it had been again refurbished, and put back into working order to the same very high standards of workmanship to when it started out life. It now being paired with 21861, it shoots very well and continues the tradition of putting round holes in square heads.
Bit of history for those.....
25394: Repaired 1995 and 2004 Resides in the USA
23791: Repaired from awful, 2004. Ocular cell from 23398 inside. Now in the US
18738: No trace. Closest 18735 which is fitted to OC109 (tin marked OC 296)
18864: In a whole batch of Indian telescopes
21861: Ex No71 type tank tele with crosshair reticle. To Mk3 spec in early 80's as spare for L42 programme. Conv to L1A1 spec 2007
Hi Peter or any other forum members who can assist,
Can you reference this in your records to see that the T I have is original still from when it was made up.
Scope 32 Mk III A K & S Serial - 16684 1944 on scope
Rifle BSA 1944 No 4 Serial F 38752
Butt stamped S 51
Thanks
Rifle 38752 was originally fitted with telescope 16684. You clearly don't have the little Armourers perspective book do you? Read it?
You know what guys I typed up a huge response to this but I deleted it lest I really get fried by the Moderators as time and again I have seen this type of response from the above member slip through and we the ones who just ask a pretty standard questions get belittling answers and insults so I will let the above reply speak for itself ? Peter we are not at war.....!
And yes Peter I have a signed copy of your book from Skennerton who really is a nice bloke.
We Paratroopers do have an aggressive streak in us I'm afraid, comes with having partial brain removal to jump out of serviceable aircraft at great heights for a living, and it never ever leaves you. Sometimes, the way it is phrased on a computer can sound a tad aggressive, but I am sure it was a quick response from someone who is extremely busy and I have to say, I wouldn't want to have to answer every single PM and thread each day on here. There just isn't enough time in the day for that, but he manages it somehow!!!
Happy New Year :madsmile:
You're an Aussie, toughen up.
Cinders, please just sit down and look at page 48 of the book and you'll find YOUR rifle mentioned against scope pad trials. On my database it is logged against YOUR telescope number. I just assumed, quite rightly that you hadn't seen it because you didn't have the book. OR, if you did have the book, you hadn't read it properly and you'd get a nice suprise when you did.
Now, in a nice way, just read page 48 of the book..................
Thanks Gil I did ask other forum members for input so it was not really directed exclusively at Peter as I realise he is a busy person but about the only one in a position to have the pertinent information all within his grasp from his personal records or at the very least a few clicks of a mouse button or a quick phone call to the RSM who owes him a favour saving him coming home from the wet mess wobbling across the parade ground singing
"It's a long way to Tipperary "...? :runaway:
Have you read page 48 yet Cinders? I'm suprised no other forumer directed you to it as the question wasn't directed to anyone in particular. It wasn't just me that had the info at his very fingertips, but everyone did, including you.
Yes I did see the weapons the Ser No.'s on 48 after being pointed in the right direction and for that I am extremely grateful, in essence and this goes for all of us that own HT - T's can they be tracked to gain an insight of the units they were issued to or is this beyond reasoning given the complexities and movements in war time.
I appreciate the input Peter as you must realise the keeping together of these components for some 70 odd years would be rather difficult as the origins of this thread proves with Scope 26151 for the L1A1
Anyway have a good new years to all.
Can they be tracked......... In a word, NO. That's because once the weapon or anything else, even a tank is ISSUED from Ordnance, then it's issued and their concern ends THERE and their paper trail ends at the point where it's recieved by the unit and the AF G-1028 (or sometimes an AF G-1018) is returned to Ordnance by the unit endorsed with the unit R&I voucher (AF G-1033).
Thereafter the unit Quartermaster is responsible. Ordnance do not keep any records beyond this. Although I was told that they keep their paper trail for 3 years just to cover any discrepancies. If it's returned to Ordnance after being condemned or ZF for example, then the unit does pretty much the same but this time an AF G-1943 is sent to Ordnance with the bit of kit (it's a classified courier nowadays) and when the new stuff arrives.............. and the same palava follows and the QM writes the kit off his books using the 1043 number plus the Ordnance receipt.......... But the QM definatelt DOES keep the old paperwork but ONLY for 3 years BUT only for classified or V&A stores. Stuff that they call expense stores are just that...... expense!. After that they have a big paperwork bonfire. At Warminster it used to go down to the boiler room to keep the camp warm!
Those such as Skippy and BP et al will still recognise some of these old but VERY useful forms. VERY useful if you a) have some and b) know how to use them properly. Mind you, some naughty rascals have been known to misuse them
So all those that SAY they know how to trace the kit, well;, they were in a different Army to me. For purely personal reasons that always stood me in good stead and to great advantage, I learned the QM system down to a fine art after being involved in the 'loss' of a Browning M1919/L3.
There, in another of those roundabout ways that so annoy others out there in forumland, has that answered the question..................?
Peter,
The good or bad news all of those numbers especially G1033 are in daily use.
Reminder to oneself:
Must get the Binos/Watch & Compass back to the stores one day before RMP knock on my door:lol::lol:
Won't do for an ex RSM will it???:red face::surrender::surrender:
So Peter give us the goss on the " I learned the QM system down to a fine art after being involved in the 'loss' of a Browning M1919/L3 " should be an interesting tail. :confused:
But the Misplaced (always misplaced when answering where did it go) Browning is not too bad as in the book "The day the bomb fell " which is nuclear bomb accidents apparently according to the author there are 2 nukes the USA cannot find (misplaced?) now that would really take some explaining ! :dunno:
Cinders you can take my place in the corner of the class as you too "Successfully Hijack" the thread, now I can get back to my desk of learning in finding the illusive missing L1A1 sight 26151 for Simon:super::super:
Helmsman! Aye Sir? Right full rudder.:lol:
The short story of the supposedly 'lost' Browning is told in the Military Vehicle thread under 'revenge, extracted in full' Not so amusing at the time I hasten to add but time is a great healer..... But it spurred me on to read up and learn the ropes as they say. Always kept on top/ahead of the QM system after that
I hope your quest for the errant scope is successful
Well here we are considerably further down the line and the rifle now belongs to me. Still no sign of the scope / bracket and tin but as you can see from the attached pics the number is definitely recorded as 26151:confused:.
Cheers,
Simon.
Simon,
Now the collecting begins:thup: