Title says it all. Found this today for $100. I THINK it was originally a French musket of some sort. This is not my area of expertise, just found it very interesting. Thoughts VERY welcome!
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Title says it all. Found this today for $100. I THINK it was originally a French musket of some sort. This is not my area of expertise, just found it very interesting. Thoughts VERY welcome!
Is it a trade gun? The sort of thing Hudson Bay would have stocked...? Looks to have been cut down and cobbled a bit.
Honestly don't think it's a trade gun. Has this 'C' shaped marking on all metal parts, but its not a C.
I really don't know what this is. I thought Austrian at first, then French. But it just caught my eye. Had to have it.
Austrian, not French. Can't remember off the top of my head which model but it is late 18th or early 19th Century. Sorry, wish I could recall more specifically. What is the barrel length and caliber? It appears to be shorter than a full musket so it may be a Dragoon Carbine.
Gew, what stands out as Austrian to you? It had an Austrian air to it, so that's why I initially thought it was. I'll do some measurements when I get a chance. Thanks!
The trigger guard and side lock plate stand out to me as Austrian.
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The type of wood used as well
Actually found a photo online of a firearm that was described as a French cavalry musket. Almost the exact firearm as mine, except that it was a flintlock.
If you look at the last photo of the marking on the trigger guard, that 'symbol' next to the 6 or the 9 is on all metal parts. Buttplate, front and rear barrel band, etc. No idea what it is.
It was, originally, a full length musket. Since the Austrians basically copied the French pattern, I cannot be sure which at this distance. The French, in particular, converted large number of flintlock to percussion - google "1822T" and "1822T bis" for plenty of examples. Many were also converted for police use, and as in all imperial systems, sent off to the colonies as 2nd-rate weapons.
Many flintlocks, especially after being sold out of service, were also privately converted and used as shotguns. As a musket is far too long to use in the field, they were usually cut down.
Being fortunate enough to have a book on the 1822 family, I am sure that this is NOT a military alteration - which was done on an arsenal basis and therefore looks professional - but, judging by the rough appearance of the bolster, a local private conversion of an old musket.
These things are plentiful over here, and of course the sellers often try to talk them up as "cavalry carbines". That sounds better than "John Doe's home-brew shotgun".
Which IMHO is what it is.
Found where the bayonet lug once was, it had been ground down some time ago, so I believe the barrel is the original length and not cut down, and the stamps in all the metal are of a small bird, maybe eagle. You just have to look at it right!
That's good, it's a bit more original than I postulated. But the bolster still does not look like an arsenal job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzac15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzac15
Easy for you to say! We out here only have the photos!
I shall get some more pics up!
OK, try and get good pics of the mystery symbol, as that would possibly provide an identification of the source. If it was originally French, there ought to be a little medallion, marked MA (Manufacture d'Armes), about 1/2" diameter, set into the butt, near the back, on the RH side. Or a filled hole, of course.
The only French candidate I can find for the original would be the 1825 T Gendarmerie Mousqueton. But the lockplate would then be pointy at the rear, not rounded. Unfortunately I do not have sufficient info on Austrian models to make a hypothetical identification.
Of course, it could have been a flintlock model, converted by "John Doe".
Here's a pic of the better stamp on the musket. This is also on e buttplate, both barrel bands, and the left side wherthe two lock screws go in.
The stock shape, the lock, the furniture (bands and triggerguard) and, in particular the percussion conversion are all Austro-Hungarian in form and not at all French.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzac15
The fine example of an 1822T pistol demonstrated by JMoore illustrates what I mean:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzac15
Turn it round 180 degrees, and it looks like an unevenly stamped embossed double-headed eagle (= Austrian)
Yes Patrick, the one on the pistol is a French bolster of the same pattern and style that is in beautiful, unspoiled condition. The bolster on the musket in question is severely eroded by the mercuric primers of the day and was of a very different shape to begin with than that used by the French.
I still vote for Austrian, but I can't find an example of one in better condition to post, sorry.
Thanks for ID.
Useful for sightings in this area and where ever I look.
By the By, you did drop a rod down the barrel to ensure....
THAT IT IS NOT LOADED, didn't you?
[of course the experience "never happened to me", you understand]