Genuine Martini???

This is my first post so I don't know exactly where to start. I acquired this Martini action 25-30 years ago and just never got around to doing anything with it. As I have been convalescing, I began to consider the projects I would complete upon my recovery that looks to be soon. High on that list is putting together a rifle on this action.

First is to verify it is strong enough to shoot. Take a look at the attached pics and tell me what you think. I have some measurements but they are crude, no, make that approximate since my right hand (and i'm right handed) is still in a cast, if that will help verify if it is a fake or not.

If it will pass, and I think it will, I'm thinking about chambering it for 45-70 or maybe 7mm-30 Waters. I have a 45-70 reamer and have access to a Waters reamer.

Since I have no barrel to take measurements from I really need the dimensions for the barrel spigot (or should that be tenon) and extractor cuts. And speaking of extractor, please take a look at this one. I'm guessing it is for a rimfire 22. It has been welded on,,, a lot. Is that the way it is supposed to look?

Thanks for any replies,
Jack

It looks good I don't know about the extractor. At one time it was used for a .303 rifle so it wood be fine for a 45-70. I don't know any thing about the 7mm-03 waters, but if it is similar to the .303 it would work.
john

Apart from the extractor, which has a rustic look about it, the rest looks very good. But I see no sign of the block and firing pin assembly, do you have them?

Hello Patrick,

Yes I do have the fully assembled beech block. It is looking face-on in the third pic in post #1.
I can take some shoots of it side-on and from the rear if need be.

Thanks,
Jack

Sorry, I did not recognize it from the unusual viewpoint. The block/firing pin assemblies tend to become clogged with dirty grease. It would be a good idea to dismantle it, then clean and evaluate the parts before reassembly.

That extractor looks very dodgy; especially the extra "pad" welded on. I'm guessing the this was to alter extractor travel for .22RF. In fact, the whole extractor looks very rough in both shape and surface qualty. See if "Numrich / Gun Parts" has any good originals.

The other thing that seems odd is the "non-appearance" of the distinctive "teardrop" shaped cocking indicator; has it been replaced by a "custom" component as pary of the conversion to .22?

.45_70 is a good choice; alternately, .444 Marlin. How about .38-55 / .375 Win?

You may also consider going with .303, or, more practically in terms of bullet selection, .30-40 Krag.

Usual caveats apply: only use genuine Brit. ordnance-made actions in GOOD condition. "Khyber Pass Specials" could be a bit "exciting" in anything hotter than black-powder loaded .303.

I had a 444 Marlin in the 70's a 336 Marlin Micro groove L.A shooting Hornady 240 grain HP at 2,400 fps reloads rather nasty both ends good if you like gutting skinning and big holes in things all at once very good at scrub where I used it to hunt porkers, had a bloke who knew all about recoil so let him shoot it after warning him so left him to it and bingo looky here Weatherby eye 4 stitches later.........dumass

Thanks for the input guys.

I checked Numrich online and they have extractors for the large frame Martini. I need to call them to see if they are for the 450 or 303 caliber. If they are for the 450, I don't think I can use them.

The chamberings suggested are all fine. It's just that I have the reamer, brass, bullet molds, and dies for the 45-70 and the reamer and easy access to lots of 30-30 brass to form the 7mm-30 Waters. The 303 would probably be the easiest to fit to the action but bullet selection is much more limited and I have no 303 loading stuff.

I really would like to have the barrel measurements if anyone has them, or, alternatively, direct me to where they can be found.

Try asking on the british site : britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com. Someone there should be able to give you barrel deminsions.
john

The other “issue” is striker alignment:

22 rimfire, being RIM-fire requires an off-centre striker.

A large number of the small-frame Martini/Francotte Cadet rifles were “reworked” into .22s.

The trick was to carefully grind the lobes of the lever so that, on closing, the breech block did not rise as far on closing. Voila! Instant offset striker. The fact that this altered the angles of the face of the breech block vs. the bore axis did not seem to upset many folk.

If your “big” Martini has been modified thusly, you are up for a new lever (and extractor). They are out there, as they say in the classics. Avoid like the plague, anything that has been welded.

Yes, it is “possible” get a “genius grade” welder and machinist to build up the tops of the lobes and then re-contour them as per original, but it would probably cost more than the rifle is worth.

As for "genuine" only a close study of the markings and fit/finish of the components will tell.

If you stick to cast lead / black powder / '73 Springfield equivalent loads, .45-70 would be fine, all mechanical caveats considered.

These critters are not getting any younger.

And if anyone has a copy of the 1970 Tommy L. Bish Gunsmithing book, it has a chapter on building a nice "sporter", on a large Martini action.

My copy has disappeared, "somewhere", however, there seem to be lots of them available on the internet, from many of "the usual suspects".

One source: Home Gunsmithing Digest Tommy L. Bish Book PB Repair Gun Digest Publishing 0695801317 | eBay

Note the original price!!

In an article by Frank De Haas titled "Barrel Shank and Thread Sizes" you will find a drawing for the Martini shank and threadsize. This appeared in the old NRA Gunsmithing Guide. Salt Flat

You have the action, If you are going to do the work your self, just measure the barrel threads with your inside spring caliper.

IMA has levers and extractors--the correct ones. Numrich does not know the difference between Greener and Martini Henry.