I would be grateful of any opinions on the rifle in the following pictures from any forum members.
Many thanks
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I would be grateful of any opinions on the rifle in the following pictures from any forum members.
Many thanks
Handguard and rear sight ladder have been replaced. Post a few more pictures of it. Does it still have the original barrel?
It looks totally stock. Nice 03. I don't know why promo said it's had parts replaced....Please tell us why you think that????
Thanks for the comments - I have asked the seller for more pictures and will post them when they arrive.
Any other thoughts?
It is always possible to have parts changed over the years. They were in service for a LONG time. Do your research on the net there's plenty of information there. I do think it looks very nice and I don't see anything wrong with it....it would be a great addition to any collection.
Promo is right and I would add the stock to the "list":
1) Original handguard would have been a "high hump" one - this one has a relatively straight profile
2) Original stock would have had one stock bolt - this has two - post 1917
3) The rear sight leaf doesn't have the 2850 yard "notch" at the top of the leaf; in addition, the sight binding screw and windage knob appear to be "flat", not dished. This indicates a post 1918 part.
The bolt appears to have a swept back handle (double heat treated) and so is also a replacement. Were you thinking of buying the rifle? If so, you should know that the rifle has no particular collector value. As a shooter, it might be a good one and it might not be. However it has a Single Heat Treated receiver and so would be dangerous is a failed cartridge case released 55,000 PSI of gas into the receiver and magazine well. The receiver would just fly apart like a glass bottle.
Thanks for the additional comments - I am (was?) thinking of buying the rifle (there are not many nice 03's that come up for sale in the UK for a 'reasonable' price (not that this price is that reasonable at an asking of £1000)).
I am aware of the issues with the 'early' receiver's, but don't have the expertise to spot the other issues like the stock, sight etc.
Still haven't received the other pictures yet and will post when I get them
That is just not true, the 30-06 does not have enough pressure to do that. Without something to raise the pressure like a bore obstruction, the stock will most likley split, the extractor might blow off and the floorplate, follower and spring will head out the bottom. The rifle will be out of service, just like any other 1903, and the action will be just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G.
Jesus Christ, do not buy that one for 1000 Pounds. There are much nicer rifles out there in Europe, for much better prices. Sorry for being such short in my answer, I was typing from my iPad. Rick has explained it anyway in the meantime :)
Are you looking for a M1903 for shooting or for collecting?
Both really - one to shoot occasionally, but one that's 'right'
If you want one that is 'right' can cost you, depending on how 'right' it is.
However, the one you are looking at is 'right' for a shooter, but the cost is high.
Give a counter offer, if he doesn't agree to lower the price, he doesn't want to part with it.
I would keep looking for one that is a little less 'blended', if I were looking for a colectable,
but I would be happy with a sporterized rifle, if the price were low.
As you said there are not many nice 03's around. If you like it snap her up and find the parts if you can to make it like it just came out of the factory or know that it has been used and been many places. Parts are changed and updated. To say it makes it less valuable than a stock untouched one is folly in my opinion. I had a Winchester M1 Garand from DCM it had many different parts on it and I was able to find the "Right" parts and put her back together....was it any better? No. It was fun and I did meet a lot of nice people at gun shows and on the internet.
So it's just a matter of perspective in my opinion. There are those who would leave it alone because it has a story to tell.
Well, the early rifles are often supposed to not be for shooting anyway, but that should decide everyone for himself.
Send me a PM if you're looking for a M1903 and would also import from Austria (not Australia), I anyway should part with a few rifles since the gun room is already stuffed until the ceiling.
I always think that history is in the eyes of the beholder. An old rifle that was refurbished by military forces during its service, has history. It may not have the parts it started out with but they were added or removed as part of its service. Things also have value based on scarcity, demand and availability. A rifle made up of collected parts to represent an "original" has value because the parts are rare but the historical provenance as a unit is not there. Each piece might have served in a famous battle, but more likely they were replacements waiting to be used. As is often said "buy the rifle not the story". To me it looks like it would be a nice interwar rifle. To be able to shoot it is a question that would provoke pages of debate. The low number poor heat treatment also coincided with poor ammunition quality (weak brass) to make a doubly dangerous situation. There are people who shoot them and people who don't. If I owned one, I would only shoot it with factory ammunition. I don't own one and I would not buy one to shoot, but that's just me, conflicted I know but we all have our foibles. As far as value, only you can determine that. If you bought this rifle for £1000, would you be "ripped off" or taken? Not unless the parts are all forgeries. Would you have a nice rifle? Why yes, you would and the parts themselves might add up to that amount. Waiting can do several things: you can find as good a rifle for less money; you can not find a rifle for years and not have the enjoyment of it; even lesser rifles become as expensive as this one is. As you said they don't come up that often and you are not in a place where guns grow on trees like here in the USA. In my situation, I would pass, in yours I would probably try to get it for less and accept that it is overpriced and has some safety concerns (as does driving a car, riding a horse, hang gliding etc.). I hope you make the decision that makes you happy. Best of luck.
Dave