Newbie here. Possible 03? A customer thought he had a Winchester30-06

This guy who stopped into the office today, picked up a rifle from his uncle who purchased it from a man who lived in New Mexico. He thought it was a Winchester M70, albeit an older one, but wasn't exactly sure.

I could use some help here. All I can see is a Redfield Scope base, with an old Weaver scope and serial numbers on the side of the receiver. No other markings and no front sight either. The claw extractor doesn't scream "Winchester" to me.

It looks like a Springfield 03 receiver. Can anyone shed some light on this? He paid $150 for it and it seems pretty solid to me. I'm guessing it's just a custom build with Buehler 3 point safety. It says "Buehler" on the edge of the safety.


Here are some pictures:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...74590000-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps49fb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps10e9-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsca3f-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps10e9-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsd43c-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...69590000-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps61ed-1.jpg

I think that is a M1903 Springfield receiver from around 1918. S/N is too low to be a 03A3.

D. :cheers:

Jesus, that is an original M1903 receiver for the W&S M1913 sight! Too bad a new sight base was installed, makes restoring nearly impossible. Holes on the left side of the receiver are for the bracket, the rifle is also in a known serial range for original snipers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Promo

Jesus, that is an original M1903 receiver for the W&S M1913 sight! Too bad a new sight base was installed, makes restoring nearly impossible. Holes on the left side of the receiver are for the bracket, the rifle is also in a known serial range for original snipers.

---

Ouch!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Ouch!

---

I've seen 03's with gas holes but was wondering about the other holes in receiver. I've never owned an 03 so I wasn't sure what to tell him. Everyone thought it was just an old stock Winchester 70

Your rifle appears to have had the "Hatcher hole" during rebuild at which time or even long before, any W&S holes from the bracket would have plugs. These plugs are often very difficult to remove as I have had friends that did find WW1 SA barreled actions at the CMP with the W&S holes and plugs. Sometimes they used a different size screw to plug the holes.

Another idea is that perhaps a Jaeger or ECHO bracket ( or something on that design) was mounted at some point in time and later removed ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RCS

Your rifle appears to have had the "Hatcher hole" during rebuild at which time or even long before, any W&S holes from the bracket would have plugs. These plugs are often very difficult to remove as I have had friends that did find WW1 SA barreled actions at the CMP with the W&S holes and plugs. Sometimes they used a different size screw to plug the holes.

Another idea is that perhaps a Jaeger or ECHO bracket ( or something on that design) was mounted at some point in time and later removed ?

---

Well, he's got a nice hunting rifle now.

RCS, definately a W&S Sniper. There are even SRS listed W&S snipers in that range, like 928.836 or 929.184. Those were listed as being sent to RIA, probably for Arsenal overhaul/rebuild in 1925.

I'm not sure who redrilled those holes, but they are definately for W&S, plus the rifle is in a known range.

Edit: I'd somehow like to restore that rifle.. Would be a hell of work, but a fun aswell. Why did he show you the rifle?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Promo

RCS, definately a W&S Sniper. There are even SRS listed W&S snipers in that range, like 928.836 or 929.184. Those were listed as being sent to RIA, probably for Arsenal overhaul/rebuild in 1925.

I'm not sure who redrilled those holes, but they are definately for W&S, plus the rifle is in a known range.

Edit: I'd somehow like to restore that rifle.. Would be a hell of work, but a fun aswell. Why did he show you the rifle?

---

He's a friend of mine and we both like the outdoors and he knew I collected German rifles. I know little about 03's and the like. He said he bought a gun from his uncle and wasn't sure exactly what caliber or model of Winchester it was. Well, turns out it's not a Winchester after I told him to bring it in. I'll admit that neither of us are savvy when it comes to this stuff though. It's a nice, substantial (heavy) deer rifle as it is, but I suppose he'd let it go for the right amount.

I have no idea who drilled those holes and neither does he. Looks professionally done. Really clean and uniform work

---------- Post added at 07:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 AM ----------

What is RCS or SRS?

I assume RIA is Rock Island Arsenal?

I have no idea if its been rebarreled or just blued, drilled and tapped on top and dropped into a new stock. The three bracket holes look original to me, like that's how the rifle came from the factory.

The owner of the rifle lives in North Iowa

Promo you could be correct, but a difficult restoration if the W&S holes were enlarged to remove the threads - also the "Hatcher hole" on a W&S scoped rifle is not the best kind of a restoration. It is kind of like the anneal receiver color on a prewar M1 rifle restoration. Holes can be fixed.
I had a friend that found two barreled actions at the CMP, both receivers had the W&S screw holes and plugs, he was able to restore these rifles (but is still looking for a better late 1917 barrel). I did mill the left inside of two stocks for him (used a 10mm ball end mill if I remember) so that the actions would fit with the W&S brackets. These receivers did not have the Hatcher holes.

Aren't these "Hatcher" holes necessary?

Is this a safe receiver to shoot?

Sorry for the confusion. RCS is a member here and that is his username/nickname. SRS refers to the "Springfield Research Service", basically a list of serial numbers of various rifles where the history is known.

The front hole is the so-called "Hatchers-Hole", a gas escape hole which was added during overhaul on those rifles which didn't have them ex-factory. The three "rear holes" with identical space in between are for mounting the scope bracket for the Warner & Swasey Musket Sight to the rifle. In the serial range this rifle is in, it would be for a M1913 variant of these scopes (there was also a M1908 variant).

Do those three rear holes still have a threading, or are they smooth?

The scope mount is definately civilean (it was made by Redfield, see the markings on the scope base - similar to the M1903A4 scope base, but not the original type), the barrel COULD be the original (with a removed rear sight base) while the heavily modified bolt appears to not be original to the rifle, at least not all of it.

Not enough definition in your photos, but that looks like it could be a $500 1903A4 bolt. And, the Redfield Jr sight base could bring a fair price.

Neal