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Gew 98, any ideas on this?
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It's a Radom made rifle, serial number 1.
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I mean, is there any significance to it being a "1"?
Someone bubba'd the heck out of it but the receiver is still in good shape and would make a good gun to re-do properly.
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What parts are matching? A Radom rifle is rather rare, but it would depend upon how much sporterized it is. What are the receiver markings on top?
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Looks like at buffed-out Gew98 from WWI production. German production not Radom. The serial number "1" is not uncommon as the numbers were commonly repeated with an a,b, or c, all the way to z. So you would see a "1a", then a "2a" all the way to "9999a". Then started again at "1b" etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Promo
What parts are matching?
Are any parts matching? This is not a joke question. I can see a 1, 5, 8, 9, 05 (?safety), 12 ... 3 different numbers in various places on the action body - The thing almost looks like a numbered diagram... "No. 8, this is the recoil lug, which in your case you have not got!"
Quite seriously - see how many different numbers are the same. If every one is different, then it is not a bitsa, but a rifle "labelled" for instruction purposes. Who on earth would need a number on the bottom of the recoil lug? Or on the bottom of the receiver just in front of the trigger mounting? Or the 5 on the side of the trigger guard loop, when the usual numbering position was on the front tang? And the 12 on the bolt catch looks as if the 2 was added after the 1. Are there more numbers in out-of the-way places?
Yes, I know it sounds like a far-fetched idea. But please, just humor me and see how many numbers you can discover!
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I'm not trying to pass this thing off as anything, all I asked is what is the deal with these numbers. I did not bubba this rifle. They don't appear to be buffed off or removed cause the numbers that ARE still there are very deep, if they selectively buffed off numbers that deep there would be discrepancies in depth all over the place. I included a photo of every number that exists on it. I am somewhat unfamiliar with Radom rifles. It's been in a pile of parts I've had for a long time and now that I have time I figured I'd maybe make something out of something that someone already butchered up. The only thing left is the barreled action, floorplate/trigger guard and trigger. It appears someone got rid of ALL the furniture and metal and sights. I was simply thinking of rebarreling it in 7mm08 (just cause I don't have one, but do have brass and dies). I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that would ruin any karma I had left if I did something to it.
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Patricks idea seems quite plausable.
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It has several Imperial German proofs on it. And the German proofs are exactly where German proofs should be. Heavily buffed, it is a nice sporter rifle and a keeper to me.
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I'm not sure I understand. I believe I answered any direct questions as accurately as possible. I took photos of every part of this rifle that is left. I would love to know what the individual marks mean (just for my own wonderings). I've restored many bubba'd rifles (just finished a 7.35 Carcano that someone defiled), there just isn't enough of this one left, they badly drilled and tapped scope base holes in it, cut the barrel down, discarded the sights, discarded the stock and hardware. It's a good solid action and deserving of being made into something elegant, but I am a history buff and also think what's left deserves whatever info is available (if that makes any sense). I came here because if anyone will know you folks will so I look forward to any info you are willing to share.
As I stated though, I did very closely look at the reflection of light across the surface of the action and I saw no bend in the reflected light as would be indicative of an area buffed out low enough to erase any proof marks or numbers. I can supply a video of rolling the action with the reflection of a 4 foot fluorescent tube on the action looking for a "bend" where a difference in height would be. But I was none. What you see is what I shot with my phone. That's all there is.
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Rifles do get buffed and restamped during arsenal reworks and that may be what they are making note of. Some markings that should be there are not. No one is accusing you of doing anything and they are answering your questions as best they can. It appears some things were buffed out, long ago. Patricks theory is an interesting one and may be what you have, a rifle that was used for assembly/disassembly training purposes with parts numbered for quick reference. This would explain the buffing, they had to clear the original markings to stamp it with new ones.
If that isn't the case, it's probably just a parts rifle put together from whatever was on hand which is not uncommon. Without some sort of accompanying paperwork, any theory is just that, a theory. No one can know for sure how this or any rifle got to be in the form it is in unless it strictly goes by normal conventions which this one does not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
rattletrap1970
all I asked is what is the deal with these numbers.
And I all asked for, for very good reason, was all the numbers you can find! In this case, the lack of a numbers can also be significant. On a properly inspected and accepted '98 there should be a number on the barrel, on the left side of the "root", with several inspector's stamps. The barrel number is fundamental to a German rifle, and was never omitted or erased. Unlike English practice (see the Lee Enfield forum), where the receiver is viewed as the fundamental item, in Germany it is the chambered barrel. So you can freely buy and sell receivers here, but not barrels.
The point of all this is, a) if the barrel never had a number, then it was never a rifle passed fit for use. b) If it had a number, but this has been erased, then Bubba has been at work.
Answer a) would support my "instruction model" hypothesis.
On the bolt shroud, there should also be the last two digits of the rifle number. They are stamped in a small size there where the rim of the shroud widens to join the boss that holds the axle of the safety lever. High left in your last photo, where I think I can see something, but cannot read it.
Another one: dismantle the bolt, and again you should find the last two digits stamped on the flat of the striker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rattletrap1970
I included a photo of every number that exists on it.
I'm sure that you thought so, but as you can see, there ought to be some more. I appreciate that first of all one has to know where to look, which is why I have taken the trouble to write such a long post, so please look again.
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I looked at the top of the receiver with a loupe and there appears to HAVE been something there. On the top of the receiver there were letters. all i can make out is there were two numbers maybe in the center, and below it from left to right what might be an R or D and on the far right what looks to be a G. On the barrel (right on the shoulder that touches the receiver) marked 7,9. There are no other marks on the barrel at all. There us a "U" inside the bolt release. That's really all there is.
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Thanks for the quick answer. It sounds as if the receiver may have been marked up for instruction purposes (armorers, arsenal fitters, who knows?). And after its "instructive" life, someone put all the bits together to make a complete rifle. You wrote that the barrel had been shortened, and you cannot find a number. A barrel with no trace of a number can never have left the factory as a proofed item. In fact, about the only way to acquire such an illegitimate object would be to steal it from within the factory. So this may have been a "lunchbox special".
All this is, of course, amusing conjecture. But you do seem to have a usable receiver, so I would happily junk the barrel and have something new fitted. 7x57 would be a good choice - no ammo problems, very accurate for a military rifle, shoulder-friendly...
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Whoever chopped this up did use it though. They put it in a monte carlo stock, put sight bases on it, shortened the barrel and re-crowned it, glass bedded the action (albeit not extremely well) and cleaned up the trigger quite nicely. I'd imagine it was someone's hunting rifle for a long time.
At any rate the receiver, bolt, and floor plate will be 240 grit aluminum oxide blasted and zinc parkerized (along with the 18-20" straight profile fluted barrel in 7mm-08), glass and pillar bedded properly in a black and grey textured fiberglass stock with a timney trigger, one piece scope base and some (as yet undefined) optics and a Harris bipod.
The info was much appreciated. Thanks.
