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I'm interested in a carbine on Gunbroker and don't know if it is bogus or not. It has a pot belly stock from a rebuild along with a type two sight and a swivel safety. But a lot of things look good for the serial number. Experts, see what you think.
M1 30 Carbine Saginaw 393716917
M 1 30 Carbine Saginaw : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
This one?M 1 30 Carbine Saginaw : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
Basically a nice mixmaster. Serial number is around the Irwin Petersen range Been rebuilt: stock, Inland front band, Type II sight, flip safety, etc. Trigger guard may be original, but really need to confirm the serial number, etc. Barrel may be original, as some undated Inland barrels were used. I don't know what he reserve is, but looks like a pretty clean post-war rework. Others here know more than me, however.
The serial number looks like 3237820.
Welcome U44,
Serial number is 3,237,820 which falls in to the serial number block assigned to Irwin-Pedersen then reassigned to Saginaw. From then on called Saginaw at Grand Rapids (S'G').
This carbine has been thru at least 1 rebuild, couldn't tell you when. I believe the stock to be a post WWII addition.
If I were looking to buy I'd ask the seller if any Import Marks are present on the barrel or receiver. I'd be interested in the bore and muzzle wear also.
May just be me... but the barrel/receiver color looks darker than original. Black enough to wonder if refinished over seas. Compare the SG recoil plate (Saginaw Steering Gear) Saginaw, Mi finish to the rear of the receiver.
All parts look authentic, less the Type IIA magcatch, which looks to be a repro.
Stock looks like the type made by IIRC Circle K Industries.. Who made IIRC Post WWII stocks.
At current 3 bids by one bidder. A possible good shooter @ current value. Though seller may think since its a S'G' it might have a high reserve.
Note the S'G' trigger housing looks to be a early type I with the narrow rear mag walls but has the added lube/drain hole on the left side.
HTH,
Regards,
Charlie-Painter777
M 1 30 Carbine Saginaw : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
U44,
Charlie gave you a good run down on it. Asking those few questions of the seller would go farther in knowing how much you might be willing to bid.
And as Charlie beat me to it, welcome to the carbine forum. Both of you are up in that cold area of the country, burrr......
Jim
Am I seeing things or is there a hole on the left side of the receiver under the rear sight? Also one at the rear of the right side of the trigger housing.
Those "holes" were used as locator holes. I believe the early housings had a hole, later ones just a dimple.
Thanks guys. Your expert knowledge is appreciated. There are enough questionable items there that I don't want to bid on this.
Yah, hey. It has been a cold winter up here, but today we finally got above freezing for he first time this year. Thing are looking up.
Jim
Auction Link:Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
M 1 30 Carbine Saginaw : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com
After reviewing what I think I can see in the auction pictures, I'm not sure what Type trigger housing is on it. I can see it's a S'G'.
I know that IP was known for the round locator/tooling hole, also know they had many left over after the S'G' take over that S'G' finished up and stamped S'G'.
Later S'G' used the tooling dimple.
I know that IP and S'G' only used the smooth (no groove) rear mag wall.
Pictures # 13 and 17 show the smooth narrow rear mag wall.
While looking at picture # 3..... Would you agree that the S'G' trigger housing's rear lug is square, no bevels like a type I or II ?
At this point I m just not sure. Why would there be no receiver lug bevels, but still have the Narrow rear mag wall?
Became curious about this while plowing/throwing more snow today.
I might just have to attribute the confusion to our first day slightly above freezing since mid December. Next we need + 3' of snow to melt slowly......
Curious to ya'lls thoughts.
Especially Saginaw BobG's............ :confused:
Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777
I think it's a Type 3 (Riesch) trigger housing that has been milled for M2 (and hole drilled for oil/drain at that time), that the photo angle in Pic 17 just makes it look like the left side wall is narrowed and that the blurred Pic 17 image doesn't show the shallower bottom selector spring mill cut. If you look at Pic 13 you can see kind if sloppy circular shape mill cut at the bottom of the wall cut, rather than perfectly square as normally seen on a narrow wall housing. My best guess. ChipSQuote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Thx Chip,
I m getting Off Topic.....
And thought the same as you for a bit.
But you need the left wall for the 9 spring.
S'G' T3 converted to M2:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...77131253-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...77131252-1.jpg
If you look at Pic 13 you can see kind if sloppy circular shape mill cut at the bottom of the wall cut
See page 420 War Baby!
I found additional info on Page 426 of War Baby! and in the "Second Printing - Errata Sheet." War Baby III adds a few more changes on pages 1178 and 1180. I still don't know the answer, but my guess is there was possibly a "transition" trigger housing without the bevel on the rear lug, but still had the narrow mag wall. Another idea could be that there are (2) different trigger housings pictured in the auction - maybe one taken at an earlier time? I agree that the RH side of TH in pic 13 has an odd looking mill cut. Charlie: When did you find your copy of War Baby? Seems like I remember it being lost. - Bob
Who knows what the reserve might be. But with a couple of days to go it's at $700. Depending on the final price this could still be a good purchase for someone. Think about what shooters are going for in your areas.
I kind of like the idea that it may be pics of two different trigger housings. It sure has happened before and not too uncommon if a seller has or had several items for sale. At least as probable as a rare transition housing?
Charlie, When S'G' took over IP, what ever was left was used. S'G' used the type 2 housings that were complete, then finished up partly made type 2 housings as type 3. ( No bevel on the lugs. ) When those were gone they then made their own type 3 housings without the locator holes just the dimples.
2 had wide rear wall.
3 had wide rear wall.
Must be a uncompleted by IP Type 1 that didn't get the bevel work done by SG.
VR,
Ch-P777
Better things ahead!
....has a narrow rear wall. I am looking at one in my hand right now. Beveled rear lug, no bevel in front, cleanly drilled through positioning hole and original finish. HTH
Added: Has ordinance bomb on right side just above the mag catch slot.
Look for the step down in the mag catch well area.
From what I can interpret of Ruth's notes on pp. 1178 and 1180 of War Baby III, what we are calling Type 2 trigger housings could be wide or narrow wall depending on the time that they were made. I've got what I've been calling a Type 3 and it doesn't have the "full round" mill cut on the sides behind the mag well. I'll attach a picture of mine compared with one of Charlie's Type 3's showing the difference in the mill cut. Charlie's has the dimple where mine has the hole not quite all the way through. I hope someone on the forum wins the auction so we can find out more about this housing! If it were a Type 1, it might have the depression behind the front lug like fig. 380 in War Baby! - BobQuote:
Originally Posted by ChipS