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Trz-5
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One other thing, the stock is not stamped TRZ.1. Should I be concerned about that?
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Yugo crest on top of receiver? Not sure.
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You have a fairly rare refurbed German K98k. The Yugos refurbished thousands of K98k's that were captured or surrendered by the Germans at the end of WW2. Not a lot of info on Yugoslav mausers available as they are just starting to be collected and studied. They produced an intermediate length mauser for their own use and for export. This was the model 1924 and was refurbished as the model 24/47, these are seen often and are usually in good shape. The MOD 98 on the left siderail of yours indicates German manufacture. The top off the receiver was scrubbed of the German maker code and a Yugo crest was applied there. The TRZ stands for Tehnick Remontni Zavod( basically technical refurbishment facility), the numeral 5 represents the individual facility in Hadicizi in present day Bosnia(just outside Sarajevo). TRZ5 had a small output of rifles and I have read that the stamped TRZ5 is much rarer than the script version having been done early in 1946. I don't think your stock should be marked TRZ1 as this was a different facility. If I were you I would hang onto the rifle as more and more guys realize what great rifles the Yugos are value will go up fast. Hope this helps.
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That was extremely helpful, Mr. Webb. I was aware that this TRZ-5 mark was not common and ended up bidding against another fellow that knew it at an estate auction. Haven't fired it yet, but looking forward to it. Got that IDF Mauser in the same auction and itching to get them out to the range. If it's not too much trouble, would you mind citing the source for the information that you shared? I prize this TRZ-5 right up there with my matching numbers Radom-Steyr 660.
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I picked some of the information up from the Gunboards forum and some of it I already was aware of. There are quite a few posts on there regarding YUGO MAUSERS and a friend of mine got one and asked me to do some research for him. His is also a TRZ5 rifle and I had no idea they were rarely seen. Just Google TRZ 5 and you can come up with the same info. I had a brain fart when I mentioned the 1924 and 24/47 Yugo mausers, I think these were used within Yugoslavia and the model 48 Yugo was exported. The 48 was the intermediate length action. You see Syrian mausers that were built in Yugoslavia for export.
On another note your Czech built Israeli mauser is nice. The stock is Israeli due to the finger grooves and it also has the Czech large trigger guard sometimes called the "winter trigger guard".
Some claim them to be a WW2 era German invention but they are 100% post war Czech. Are there any German WaA on the Czech mauser? Many of the postwar Czechs used parts produced for the German war machine.
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Ah, I resurrected an old thread on gunboards that captured a discussion about these TRZ-5s. An article in the Military Rifle Journal was cited there. Apparently the folks at MRJ sell back issues, so I may be spending some money there.
I'm travelling this week, so I won't be able to check on the waffenamts on the IDF Mauser, but I don't recall any. Haven't had the stock off yet either. That will certainly happen this weekend as my wife tells me I'll be returning to some more foul weather in St. Louis.
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There are no waffenamts on the Czech IDF rifle. I guess that means I'll have to get one that does, right? ;-)
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For extensive knowledge of Yugoslav Mausers, pick up the book "Serbian & Yugoslav Mauser Rifles," North Cape Publishing, 2005. Author is Branko Bogdanovic, Zastava historian, Military Museum Belgrad researcher, and well known European author. There is no greater supply of information of the subject though you won't find a whole lot on the post war period.
Concerning that article in MRJ, let me humbly claim primary authorship of it. It was a collaboration between a friend and I. For a quick reference on things Yugoslav Mauser, check out this site- http://milsurpshooter.net/forums/84/...n-Mauser-Forum The stickies on that forum contain a lot of info, some of it not published anywhere else.
I am a moderator on that site so am partial to it but, for the record, I do not profit nor am I in any way compensated for any recommendations I make.
TRZ.5, the script form is not really rare, but may be called relatively uncommon (see pic below). The block font TRZ-hyphen-5 is considerably rarer. No idea of numbers exists.
The Yugoslav crest on your rifle is of a less common variety but not generally associated with early crests. You see, the crest tools were mostly manufacture by hand, consequently, while some few are similar enough to be thought made by the same hand, no two are really alike. An attempt is being made to catalog them but, little can come of it since so many other records were lost or destroyed. See my pic before for what is believed to be an early TRZ.5 crest. Actually, I am inclined to believe these block fonts are later production done after TRZ.5 had done with the bulk of their Mauser work or perhaps they were farmed out to other shops in the area to handle over flow work. You see, Hadzicki was the site of a number of different shops handling everything from smallarms through armer, artillery and heavy equipment. At last report, the place was a mess having been bombed by NATO. We dumped a lot of stuff containing depleted uranium on them and much of it was still laying scattered all over the place contaminating ground water and affecting health of the local residents and "peace keepers" too. At that time, no effort was being made to clean it up. What it's like now, I can't say but, since there remains active industry in the area, I would expect they've taken care of things. By example, one business there is TRZ-Hadzici. Appropriately enough, they manufacture EOD safety equipment. By all reports, they have no connection to the Tito era work shops.
There's more but it's late and the ole eyelids are drooping.
I hope this much at least is of interest. g'night.
Attachment 50977 Attachment 50976 Attachment 50975
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Thanks, Jim. I wish I knew even a small bit of what you do about these rifles, but I've begun educating myself. I've come across that site before on some searches and didn't connect the dots that they had an entire forum dedicated to Yugoslav Mausers. Thanks very much for that. I've not come across anything about barrel markings yet. Can any insights be gleaned from those? In case there can, I'm posting pics of the TRZ-5's barrel marks.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5c636b80-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2293b3d5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...58e70c96-1.jpg
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You're very welcome. Most of what I learned was on that forum and through a friendship formed with author Branko Bodganovic. He has shared much with me that I have passed on. His 2005 book just scrapes the tip of the ice berg that is Yugoslav Mauser rifles.
Btw, do not be concerned about a lack of 1.TRZ stamp. That is a rework shop which is generally believed to have been concerned with stock maintenance and repair.
Your rifle is in a German manufactured stock that may or may not be original to that rifle. There's no telling since the Yugoslavs renumbered it to match the rifle which was given a new Yugoslav serial #.
Now that I think of it, your rifle was refurbished in or before 1950. From 1950 on, the Yugoslavs added a "/48" behind the side rail designated M. or MOD.98 on the rail.
Regrettably, I cannot identify those stamps. Actually, at least some of those stamps will be original to the weapon as the Yugoslavs were not always diligent in removing all original markings. Also, the records of lesser Yugoslav stamps and their meaning are long gone- lost, destroyed and/or forgotten. Old workers have even been interviewed in attempts to fill out the records. The most common known Yugoslav markings you should encounter on the weapon are possibly a 2 or more commonly 3 digit assembly number, a proof stamp- "T", or a 5pt star over "T."
Sorry I can't really tell you more.
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I checked and I have your receiver ring crest on file with another block font TRZ-5 so it's typical to that shop.
Just so's you know, here are images of some of the markings I described...
In this case (a 24/47) the two digit "21" is the assy # used to keep parts and rifle together during manufacturing. The second image shows the locations to find them.
The third image are the proof marks used. the crown over-T was the pre-war proof mark which was supposed to have been eradicated and not used after the communist take over but was sometimes retained or a stamp used in absence of any other. The 5 point star was the official communist era proof and in some cases a simple "T" stamp was used. Btw, the "T" stood for "torment" which, as far as I can find is the same as the English word.
Another stamp I forgot to mention and might be a couple of stamps I couldn't make out in your pictures was the letters "BK" usually found in a circle but sometimes in a square and rarely but, occasionally by themselves. The "BK" are actually Cyrillic characters for the Latin "VK" representing Vojna Kontrolla- Military control.
Attachment 51057 Attachment 51056 Attachment 51058
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Thanks again, Jim. I'm going to have to learn that thumbnail trick. This rifle doesn't have assembly numbers of the manner you describe. Doesn't have a "T" that I can see either. Your note prompted me to give it another thorough going over. Cosmoline is probably never completely gone, but another good whack at it was done.
Anyway, I can imagine that it has a couple "BK" in rectangle marks, but this is a situation where getting older and forgetful was an advantage. My best guess at this microscopic mark was "SY" before I returned to your post and had my memory refreshed. I did find a waffenamt with no manufacturer code on the underside base of the bolt handle.
It's funny. I have friends who don't understand the allure of milsurps. "Why do you want to mess with all the issues with those relics?" Once they are done reading their owners manual, there's nothing left to learn about their guns aside from operational quirks, which makes me sad for them. Finding the owners manual is just the beginning for us. :-)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...14e7233e-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6efe035a-1.jpg
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I just don't know. The best I can do here is guess since we have so few examples of this code's rifles. But, here's my oh-2 for whatever it may be worth.
Item, the receiver ring crest is crude and lightly struck. (typical of this code)
Item, the rail marking is atypical and crude, some examples considerably moreso than yours.
Item, no assembly numbers*
Item, no proof stamp...
* I checked my script fonted TRZ.5 model 24/47 to verify that it had an assy.# suggesting that they used such and that the practice was not restricted to Kragujevac.
Now, the siderail marking with a stand alone "MOD.98 suggests a rework of 1950 or earlier. But it is my opinion that these few are put togethers from the last left over parts from the run or Mauser reworks, the... 'sweepings of the shop floor' so to speak. I figure the production line had or was being torn down and somebody just managed the markings with whatever they could manage.
There you go. That's the best I can come up with barring additional examples, explanations.
