N187 No.5 Bayonet Rebuild

Having luckily acquired a reasonably priced Radcliff N187 bayonet off of Ebay for a reasonable sum I am now in the process of restoring it. I have purchased appropriate replacement parts from vendors in England. Plus a few extra's to hold onto for my parts stash. The original No.5 grip sets were a nice find! I received the last 4 sets the vendor had in stock, one set was not completely finished and is the best condition set in the lot. The set I will be using has one panel cracked almost in two which will have to be repaired before I use it. I hope the English economy is grateful for the cash infusion, because these parts are not exactly cheap, not to mention the shipping and credit card currency conversion fees. The other parts were appropriated as well, the grip screws and locking catch, plus a SA marked Savage No.4 was picked as well from the second vendor. Other than bobbing the locking catch screw a little when fitted and fitting & finishing the grips, this should be rather straight forward.

The only real question I have would be; are the grips stained at all before BLO, or straight BLO?Attachment 51160Attachment 51159Attachment 51158Attachment 51157

Shame you didn't ask on the forum.......... I'm knee deep in No5 bayonet spares and regularly just send them off for the cost of postage. The catches and nuts don't look like the issue items to me either! Grips just stained if they need matching. If not, just left to float in warm linseed for a few hours. Brian at BDL Ltd can bead and phosphate to like-new UK Mil-spec

Someone just asked me what's the matter with the bolt part of the catch; the bolt goes in through the right side, into the spring and recessed nut in the left side. It LOOKS, through the cellophane wrapper, as though the bolt head part is stepped and if so, will not engage the rounded underside of the pommell of the rifle or SMG allowing the bayonet to be pulled straight off! At least it did on the one I have just machined to look similar. The head of the bolt should be approx .340" long x .435" dia and the nut part should be .4" long x the same dia, recessed for the spring to a depth of .19 or so. Springs can be round wire or flat wire that fits over thge shaft and into the recess of the nut of course with a free length of .450"

There...... another useless bit of Enfield info if anyone is really interested!

Attachment 51164Attachment 51165Attachment 51166Attachment 51167Hello Mr. Laidler,

I was just going to reply with the same information you just mentioned. Plus a few pictures to back up your observations, good call! I picked these up from the vendor thinking they were new and just like the original's (no mention of reproduction on his site for these) I guess I did not do my homework thoroughly enough so I made a mistake. At least it was not lethal to my bank account. My intention is to bring it back up to original spec's with the parts. As they say you live and learn! If it is not too late to ask, I would like to get a complete original locking catch from you? Please let me know the cost for the postage and how to compensate you for it? I will have to inquire with Brian later about the bayonet refurbishment you mentioned. I have a Sterling that is shown in the photo's that may need a little TLC as well. I used the Sterling to compare catches, since i did not have my Wilkinson No.5 to compare too, it is at another location.

Otherwise the repop catch is not tightly fitting as the Sterling, it wobbles in the hole a little, also as Mr. Laidler mentioned it is also stepped so it will probably not stay attached as it should to the rifle.

Here is another picture I forgot to show the locking nut on the catch.

I will PM you over the weekend. But in return please do a short write-up with details about who is supplying this total rubbish. What are the grip screws like?

The grip screws are also new according to the vendors site. They fit, but are not the same length, through the grips, just a bit longer. The heads and nuts are just a mite smaller than the holes. You can see this as you look at the edges.

If you have an extra set of correct size/length screws and size nuts, that can be parted with, it would be appreciated.

Attachment 51199Attachment 51200Attachment 51201

I think he's sold you No1 bayonet screws and nuts..........

Hey Wade, I BDL FTR'd the long Indian SLR bayonet along with the correct scabbard you gave me and it looks new. I just have to fit the new handles. I recognize the printing on that Jiffy Bag!!

Brian,

That's great!, to hear that the Indian FAL bayonet turned out very well! I would like to see it next time I visit.

A question just occurred, is there a difference between the grip screws length for the No.1, 5, 7 bayonet? Just a thought?

Not only length but dia too! 5 and 7 are the same(?)

Thanks, that is good to know!

Jusat a slight correction to thread 11. No7 grip screws are slightly shorter that No5 grip screws and the shanks are threaded 3BA and NOT 2BA as per the No5 grip screws.

Nuts threaded accordingly

Well, I have advanced some with the project of fitting the grips. First I had to match up the correct sizes together otherwise it would have been a little more work to fit them together. I glued together the cracked pieces of the right grip, not totally separated, back together. I also glued the small section on the left grip together that was more annoying than noticable, had to cut a sliver of toothpick thin enough to insert and separate the small section so I could get some glue in there. Otherwise it turned out pretty good. Clamps used were some rubber bands and some small clamps on the right grip. Had to make sure the rubber bands were wrapped tight enough. Seems like a lot of effort to repair the grips, but it was worth it. After lightly scraping excess glue off and some sandpaper carefully used, you hardly notice where the split lines are. You have to look carefully in the light to notice them. I did use household bleach to whiten them up so I could get a close color match when I BLO'd them. Which is what I am currently doing. Of course I had to sand the ends downs a smidgen to fit them to the grip section of the bayonet. Figured I would post a couple picts of the effort.

The correct bits are on their way as we speak

Thanks for the update Mr. Laidler, it is appreciated.

Apparently I loaded two of the same picture, so I ill correct it, and show the one I intended.

Hi Guys greetings from the RSA. I love it when a plan comes together and would appreciate a final photo of the project . I am all for doing a repair to save a good piece if done correctly as this a is also part of the fun of collecting

Well, here is the latest updates currently being attended on the No.5. I have received the correct parts from Mr. Laidler, via Brian at BDL Ltd, and it is very much appreciated. I have taken some photo's of the repro and real locking catch for comparison reference so everyone can get a better idea between the items. Also the grips have come along nicely with several soaking in warmed boiled linseed oil (four soakings). Now the next step is to reduce the length of a set of the no.1 grip screws to use, or find a correct set of No.5 grip screws (not sure how easy that will be)? Thoughts on the grip screws would be entertained on how to proceed next?

Thoughts on grip screws......... Don't bother, a pair on the way via Brian at BDL

Thanks for the update Mr. Laidler, ill post postage reimbursment to Brian for these latest bits.

The irony in this bayonet thread is that if you loook at thread 18, photo 5, you'll see just how far the catch protrudes from the side of the bayonet. Now look at the same plan view of an UN-modified L1A1 or L1A2 bayonet and you'll see the stupidity of the L1A1-A2 bayonet modification to L1A3-A4 spec. It was done '..... to prevent the loss of bayonets due to the excessive protrudence of the catch when the bayonet is fixed to the rifle'. Strange that the even more protruding catch of the No5 bayonet on the No5 rifle and L2A3 SMG didn't cause concern. And that it didn't cause concern for Australian L1A1 bayonets either!

And while I'm here, the catch on the L85 bayonet protrudes a fair bit too! Such is life I suppose

Well, the last bits from Mr. Laidler thru Brian at BDL lTD, showed up last week! I finally assembled the grips onto the N187. Definitely looks a lot better! Thanks for all the suggestions and coordination on the bits to do this correctly! Some last pictures of the endeavor enclosed. The first picture is a comparison of the P07 screws vs No.5 screws & nuts. The rest are of the regripped No.5. Its been fun and entertaining, now for another milsurp adventure!

Looks good. I'd have asked Brian to phosphate and paint the bayonet too while he was at it. It'd look new then.

Thanks for the reply! I have a few other bayonets that I will have him look at and see what he can do later, this one will be be included. I'll just have to remove the grips. I figured it would give me something to look at until then.

Well done Patt, you've inspire me to repair my own WSC example. Mine has had the muzzle ring removed as well as the grips so I need to make a new cross piece and then disassemble/reassemble.

Top of the photo. I wonder how a SLR bayonet would look with wood grips?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...CIMG3473-1.jpg

Love the ones with the shot muzzle rings. Haven't seen those in a while. I always wondered, after seeing those...how you could possibly do that? Either your bayonet is on or not...

I assumed they had been chopped on purpose to kind of de militarise them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brit plumber

chopped on purpose

---

Possible, but I've seen my share of them. In a minute we should have feedback from some of the armorers. I've seen enough of them and the men at the time told me they had been hit by a bullet. Hard for me to grasp how.

The only way I saw any shot off an L1A1 was when the flash eliminators split but that was VERY rare as you never shot with the bayonets anyway as shooting with the bayonet the bayonet badly affected your score. Plenty from the little L85 though!

You'll have to fully strip the pommell and crosspiece BP. I have one if you want to copy it.

Brit Plumber, I think the wood grips would look good on your no.5, maybe even on one of those slr bayonets too. Looks like a challenge ahead to refurb them (I believe there is a post archived on this same subject of it being done to a couple of no.5's). Maybe an SLR letter opener like they did to some no.5's? Just a thought. I have a Pool No. 5 that happened too, which I picked off of gunbroker awhile back. The thin tempered blade is definitely nice and springy! You can tell it was carefully ground down by hand.

Had to look for the link, on Big Duke's thread,

Jungle Carbine Bayonet Repair
Jungle Carbine Bayonet Repair

Hope this helps

Fitting actual No5 grips to an L1A1 bayonet is a real pig because the grip screw holes are incorrect and drilling new through the tough steel is a real pig and will eat centre drills for breakfast. Best make new grips as I had to do rather than use No5 grips. I seem to remember that one of the new holes runs into the existing hole - or am I mistaken there. Anyway. like selling a car, original is ALWAYS best. Just my opinion

They didn't make wood grips on the production L1A1 bayonets because the muzzle blast just chopped the xxxt out of the top edges of the wood. Later the design of the flash eliminator was changed to prevent this plus the top anges of the steel grip sides